What happened to the other two quadrants?

If you’re implying these are contradictory then you need to work on your media literacy.

The hierarchies present in the USSR didn’t take the form of income inequality. You’re taking a metric that is very useful for analyzing capitalist countries and using it in a context where it doesn’t make much sense.

Anyway, the comparison with the west isn’t really relevant to the comparison I would make in that case, which would be between the initial revolutionary movement and where it ended up.

They kinda did though.

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Cheers mate and I apologize for my tone which probably contributed to this conversation going in that direction initially. Sometimes that snark just feels so good haha.

Personally I prefer to describe these types of governments as run of the mill authoritarian (or totalitarian if they progress far enough). I do think the ultranationalism and xenophobia is an important aspect of fascism though–that’s what makes them able to commit atrocities beyond just historical monarchies or other types of oppressive governments. The dehumanization of anyone who is different combined with that totalitarian power makes mass murder way more likely.

I don’t see that in Venezuela right now but what I really wanted was for someone to make the case that it was rather than just saying they’re fascist because they’re bad. Yes, they are bad, but I really don’t like the simplification of complex political ideas down into quasi-slurs.

Sure I agree, but to me the term “open fascist” implies there is no attempt to hide what they are. If you meant it otherwise then I don’t understand what it’s meant to imply.

Yeah you can definitely be a fascist and hide that fact. This is very common.

But it wouldn’t open fascism if you hide it.

Maybe I didn’t explain it very well. I wasn’t saying progress was impossible. But the individual organizations, nations, leaders, etc. often end up getting caught up in this trajectory. Once this happens, there will usually be a new movement to try to fight against the new dominant hegemony. Sometimes the old power wins, sometimes the new one does, but inevitably, whoever wins will keep regressing. But there can still be a big change as the old guard is replaced (or sometimes bullied into submission).

So, it’s probably not universally true, but it’s a pattern that I’ve started noticing again and again as I study history.

I can’t remember the exact route I took but the best hike I’ve ever done was in this area. Really incredible place.

It’s not just tankies. Almost the entirety of human history can be boiled town to various more or less effective movements for liberation getting co-opted by selfish assholes and becoming the thing they swore to destroy.

That’s the sad part. They literally don’t even need to try to justify it with the number of bootlickers nowadays.

When passports and visas were created they were widely decried as government tyranny and promised to be a temporary wartime measure. And yet now people accept them as normal.

If you think the government should control my personal freedom to travel then please justify that. Otherwise, fuck laws that infringe freedom without adequate justification.

We live in a society of countless byzantine laws. It’s literally impossible to obey every single law 100% of the time.

In this context, the term criminal loses all meaning.

So when is Pete Hegseth getting sent to CECOT?

That’s the thing though. Those other three are pretty important.

It’s not a troll, I just think fascism is uniquely dangerous and we should use words correctly. This is the same twisting of words that lets people smear Zelinsky or whoever as a fascist. You can always find some points of commonality but you need the whole definition to match, not just parts of it.

And saying it’s open fascism is even more silly. It’s only open fascism if they’re self-describing that way. There aren’t any openly fascist countries today.

I guess you still didn’t look up the definition of fascist?

I don’t know what kind of history degree would leave you so ignorant of this issue but maybe you should ask for a refund.

Maduro is not a fascist. I would recommend reading up on the meaning of the word before tossing it around so haphazardly.

Open fascism lol. You guys are the reason no one takes that word seriously anymore.

Yeah this is brainless pro-Soviet propaganda. All too common here, sadly.