I’m in my 30’s, have 2 degrees, have had a soul- rushing corporate job for more than a decade. I’m quite happily married. We bought a house when we were 23- younger than Carly here in this comic.
Part of that success was that we were willing to buy a cheap house. An old house in a rough neighborhood, a bad school district. A fine trade-off because we didn’t want children. We didn’t need a gigantic house, or a brand-new construction, or to live in a trendy growing neighborhood.
I make 6 figures, which for where I live is more than twice the average HOUSEHOLD income. As I’ve grown older I have seen how all of these expensive things, all these desires, are unhealthy. There is very little left that I want to buy. What I really lack is time. I spend ~10-11 hours 5 days a week either actively working or getting in/out of “work” mode. I have molded my sleep schedule around work. It consumes my life, dealing with inane corporate nonsense in exchange for that paycheck.
I stopped desiring new and expensive things a long, long time ago. I have had a bad knee for more than a decade. My retina somehow detached itself several years ago, and while it was re-attached that eye is only half as good now as it was before. The fancy 70" 4k TV hanging in my living room became difficult to focus on and I don’t use it much anymore, preferring smaller and closer screens. And I have been incredibly lucky- I have not been in a car accident, I don’t have any chronic diseases, and aside from my knee and eye I am in good health. Most people my age have several conditions that require medication and regular appointments to manage. I know full well that my own flesh will continue to fail me. It is quite easy to “piss away” your entire life by trying to “build for the future” that never comes.
I’ve traveled. I’ve gone to tons of festivals and concerts and movies and comedians. I’ve eaten at fancy restaurants and sampled expensive wine (my mother-in-law is a licensed sommelier). And yet, when I look back on my life my favorite memories are the simpler ones. Snippets of conversations with people I care about. Moments playing with our cats. Afternoons I spent completely alone, laying in the sun on my back porch, listening to the birds vying for mates or the squirrels fighting over food. Playing guitar and writing music.
“Stay in school” only worked when that paid off. I would still recommend finishing high school, but profit motives have made secondary education in the US a much more nuanced and individual decision in the past couple decades. I will say that it’s a good idea to avoid weed, alcohol, or any other recreational drugs until you have become as established as you want to be. There is a balance to be found between avarice and sloth.
I’m bourgeoisie now? What means of production do you seem to think I own? Privelege? Well sure, everyone has some level of privelege - we could talk more about how the subjects of the comic are white, cis, heterosexual, and one of them is even male! But none of that is relevant to the message.
When I was a teenager I wanted things. The latest videogame, the new movie, the new novelty item from the fast food place, the new technological gadget that promised to make my life better. I wanted to go to college and get a job, work hard, get rich, get a big house with a pool and a huge yard and have 3 kids.
Are philosophers like Lao Tzu, Socrates, Diogenes, Aquinas, and most schools of Buddhism all a “teenaged mindset”, or are you just trying to infantilizs and undermine anti-consumer sentiments? Are you saying what you truly believe, or just parroting what the advertisers have told you?
“I’m in my 30’s, have 2 degrees, have had a soul- rushing corporate job for more than a decade. I’m quite happily married. We bought a house when we were 23- younger than Carly here in this comic.”
Yes you are because all of this starting privilege doesn’t go to poor people. You’re extremely privileged roleplaying as some communist keyboard warrior when in reality you know nothing of the struggles of the people this comic represents.
I won’t glaze you. You’re incredibly privileged and have found success because of this privlage. Any argument otherwise is delusional.
There’s a huge different between being privileged and being bourgeoisie. Or else the proletariat would be virtually non-existent.
And poor people, including people in trailer parks, can get 2 degrees and a corporate job, and buy a house. It’s difficult, and especially the part about secondary education has gotten worse over time.
You’re just a slave to desire, to avarice, to greed. Convinced you can work yourself to death and that one day the benevolent overlorda will reward you with happiness.
"You’re just a slave to desire, to avarice, to greed. Convinced you can work yourself to death and that one day the benevolent overlorda will reward you with happiness. "
Says the guy who opened with how much shit he owns and how young he was when it was given to him.
You’re not impressing me with your bourgeoisie denialism. It’s genuinely sad that you think you’re the opposite of what you actually are. You’re lying to yourself and it’s incredibly obvious.
Look dude, I almost completely agree with you and am in a very similar position to you, including the philosophy part.
However, you’re utterly denying the privileges and ease of life that comes with money. Money removes the existential dread of “how will I survive AND pay the bills next month.” In your position, you have almost certainly either experienced at least a middle class childhood, or were fortunate enough that you had the cognitive capacity and necessary support to overcome the cards stacked against you.
You’re completely ignoring the effects of poverty and resulting helplesness, either through low education, untreated (mental) health issues, abusive families, or all of those. All these issues compound and make your statement just laughable, even with the token remark about education.
And poor people, including people in trailer parks, can get 2 degrees and a corporate job, and buy a house. It’s difficult, and especially the part about secondary education has gotten worse over time.
With this, you’re not just showing a complete and utter lack of empathy and understanding, you’re actively supporting the conservative “lazy poors” rhetoric and the system leading to systemic oppression of the less fortunate. You’re pulling up the ladder behind you.
That person’s a NIMBY, or performative liberal if you prefer. I was a bit too much of a dick about it but I could tell immediately and refuse to glaze.
Anyone who spouts that level of naive shit and isn’t a teenager is willfully ignorant and most likely a conservative at heart.
Lol I’m not denying any sort of privelege. I grew up on the borderline between lower and middle class as my mother’s fortunes changed. But trying to analyze my personal life experiences is just a terrible, meager excuse to dismiss the historical value of asceticism. It’s the equivalent of dismissing socialism because “capitalism made your iphone!”. I’ve had to scrape by with an empty bank account and max’d out credit cards, relying on whatever was left in the pantry and whatever gas was left in the tank to make it until pay day. But it doesn’t matter if I’ve had those experiences or not- the message from this author is not dependent upon just how poor some random member of the audience happened to be at various points in his life. Yiu can’t make any sort of actual argument here and are trying to “win” by personally attacking me, as if that’s going to accomplish anything for anyone.
And yes- not having money can be incredibly stressful. But…once again look at the comic. First of all, the author acknowledges that this is not a perfect lifestyle, but makes it clear that the characters are not as stressed out about financial difficulties as you might expect. And if you stop to think about it…
What bills do they need to pay exactly? What is it you feel they should be so stressed about that you’re judging them for being satisfied? In rural areas like this they likely have well water and a septic tank. We already know they don’t have heat. They probably don’t have a natural gas hookup. The comic says the pay for electricity, but heck there are plenty of ways around that if you want. If you ever go out to rural places like these you’ll see cheap solar panels all over the place where it doesn’t make sense to run main voltage electricity, and in the hills you’ll find people running micro hydro. I am imagining they inherited the trailer and land or somehow managed to buy it in the past- trailers are cheap and land in rural areas is cheap. Property taxes… Maybe, but what no permanent construction on the property that’s going to be miniscule. Maybe cell phone bills? But with all the alternate forms of income I mentioned it’s not that much of a stretch to think that they could scrape together the money for that, if they wanted.
I’ve acknowledged elsewhere here that I was lucky, and college degrees have become more expensive and less valuable since I graduated. So I’m not sure why you seem to be accusing me of accusing poor people of being lazy. In fact that kind of goes against everything else that I’m saying here- the people in this comic appear to be living a virtuous and satisfying lifestyle without all the trappings of wealth and capitalism. I know people who live similar lifestyles and are quite happy.
You’re the one judging poor people here. Suggesting that wanting to live like this is immature or a sign of mental illness. The truth is that tons of people live like this and are happy. And while it’s not a lifestyle I personally want to embrace, there are lessons to be learned from studying other lifestyles. It’s important to ask what it is that we are spending money on, what we are working for, and what the opportunity cost of labor is.
No, what I am saying is that you are denying that the vast majority of people would not choose to live like that if they had a choice. It is simply what they fell into and all they know.
You said that poor people can go and do two degrees and what not. Sure, in fantasy land anyone can become anything. In real life, it’s not that simple and no, they cannot. Or they can, but with 10 times the effort of someone in a more privileged position. That is not to be expected of anyone just to live a self-fulfilled life.
I did not attack you personally and you don’t have to justify your life to me. I was pointing out that you are fortunate enough to be able to make that choice in life. Not everyone has the capacity to think and read about philosophies of any kind, and you do. Your conclusions come from a place of luxury and freedom that you are denying in your statements.
I’m in my 30’s, have 2 degrees, have had a soul- rushing corporate job for more than a decade. I’m quite happily married. We bought a house when we were 23- younger than Carly here in this comic.
Part of that success was that we were willing to buy a cheap house. An old house in a rough neighborhood, a bad school district. A fine trade-off because we didn’t want children. We didn’t need a gigantic house, or a brand-new construction, or to live in a trendy growing neighborhood.
I make 6 figures, which for where I live is more than twice the average HOUSEHOLD income. As I’ve grown older I have seen how all of these expensive things, all these desires, are unhealthy. There is very little left that I want to buy. What I really lack is time. I spend ~10-11 hours 5 days a week either actively working or getting in/out of “work” mode. I have molded my sleep schedule around work. It consumes my life, dealing with inane corporate nonsense in exchange for that paycheck.
I stopped desiring new and expensive things a long, long time ago. I have had a bad knee for more than a decade. My retina somehow detached itself several years ago, and while it was re-attached that eye is only half as good now as it was before. The fancy 70" 4k TV hanging in my living room became difficult to focus on and I don’t use it much anymore, preferring smaller and closer screens. And I have been incredibly lucky- I have not been in a car accident, I don’t have any chronic diseases, and aside from my knee and eye I am in good health. Most people my age have several conditions that require medication and regular appointments to manage. I know full well that my own flesh will continue to fail me. It is quite easy to “piss away” your entire life by trying to “build for the future” that never comes.
I’ve traveled. I’ve gone to tons of festivals and concerts and movies and comedians. I’ve eaten at fancy restaurants and sampled expensive wine (my mother-in-law is a licensed sommelier). And yet, when I look back on my life my favorite memories are the simpler ones. Snippets of conversations with people I care about. Moments playing with our cats. Afternoons I spent completely alone, laying in the sun on my back porch, listening to the birds vying for mates or the squirrels fighting over food. Playing guitar and writing music.
“Stay in school” only worked when that paid off. I would still recommend finishing high school, but profit motives have made secondary education in the US a much more nuanced and individual decision in the past couple decades. I will say that it’s a good idea to avoid weed, alcohol, or any other recreational drugs until you have become as established as you want to be. There is a balance to be found between avarice and sloth.
So you were in an incredible position of privilege, your advice is only good for the bourgeoisie not for the people this comic actually applies to.
Idk what flex you thought you had but being middle aged with a teenagers sense of the world is incredibly sad.
I’m bourgeoisie now? What means of production do you seem to think I own? Privelege? Well sure, everyone has some level of privelege - we could talk more about how the subjects of the comic are white, cis, heterosexual, and one of them is even male! But none of that is relevant to the message.
When I was a teenager I wanted things. The latest videogame, the new movie, the new novelty item from the fast food place, the new technological gadget that promised to make my life better. I wanted to go to college and get a job, work hard, get rich, get a big house with a pool and a huge yard and have 3 kids.
Are philosophers like Lao Tzu, Socrates, Diogenes, Aquinas, and most schools of Buddhism all a “teenaged mindset”, or are you just trying to infantilizs and undermine anti-consumer sentiments? Are you saying what you truly believe, or just parroting what the advertisers have told you?
“I’m in my 30’s, have 2 degrees, have had a soul- rushing corporate job for more than a decade. I’m quite happily married. We bought a house when we were 23- younger than Carly here in this comic.”
Yes you are because all of this starting privilege doesn’t go to poor people. You’re extremely privileged roleplaying as some communist keyboard warrior when in reality you know nothing of the struggles of the people this comic represents.
I won’t glaze you. You’re incredibly privileged and have found success because of this privlage. Any argument otherwise is delusional.
There’s a huge different between being privileged and being bourgeoisie. Or else the proletariat would be virtually non-existent.
And poor people, including people in trailer parks, can get 2 degrees and a corporate job, and buy a house. It’s difficult, and especially the part about secondary education has gotten worse over time.
You’re just a slave to desire, to avarice, to greed. Convinced you can work yourself to death and that one day the benevolent overlorda will reward you with happiness.
"You’re just a slave to desire, to avarice, to greed. Convinced you can work yourself to death and that one day the benevolent overlorda will reward you with happiness. "
Says the guy who opened with how much shit he owns and how young he was when it was given to him.
You’re not impressing me with your bourgeoisie denialism. It’s genuinely sad that you think you’re the opposite of what you actually are. You’re lying to yourself and it’s incredibly obvious.
Look dude, I almost completely agree with you and am in a very similar position to you, including the philosophy part.
However, you’re utterly denying the privileges and ease of life that comes with money. Money removes the existential dread of “how will I survive AND pay the bills next month.” In your position, you have almost certainly either experienced at least a middle class childhood, or were fortunate enough that you had the cognitive capacity and necessary support to overcome the cards stacked against you.
You’re completely ignoring the effects of poverty and resulting helplesness, either through low education, untreated (mental) health issues, abusive families, or all of those. All these issues compound and make your statement just laughable, even with the token remark about education.
With this, you’re not just showing a complete and utter lack of empathy and understanding, you’re actively supporting the conservative “lazy poors” rhetoric and the system leading to systemic oppression of the less fortunate. You’re pulling up the ladder behind you.
That person’s a NIMBY, or performative liberal if you prefer. I was a bit too much of a dick about it but I could tell immediately and refuse to glaze.
Anyone who spouts that level of naive shit and isn’t a teenager is willfully ignorant and most likely a conservative at heart.
They’re missing some self-awareness for sure.
Lol I’m not denying any sort of privelege. I grew up on the borderline between lower and middle class as my mother’s fortunes changed. But trying to analyze my personal life experiences is just a terrible, meager excuse to dismiss the historical value of asceticism. It’s the equivalent of dismissing socialism because “capitalism made your iphone!”. I’ve had to scrape by with an empty bank account and max’d out credit cards, relying on whatever was left in the pantry and whatever gas was left in the tank to make it until pay day. But it doesn’t matter if I’ve had those experiences or not- the message from this author is not dependent upon just how poor some random member of the audience happened to be at various points in his life. Yiu can’t make any sort of actual argument here and are trying to “win” by personally attacking me, as if that’s going to accomplish anything for anyone.
And yes- not having money can be incredibly stressful. But…once again look at the comic. First of all, the author acknowledges that this is not a perfect lifestyle, but makes it clear that the characters are not as stressed out about financial difficulties as you might expect. And if you stop to think about it…
What bills do they need to pay exactly? What is it you feel they should be so stressed about that you’re judging them for being satisfied? In rural areas like this they likely have well water and a septic tank. We already know they don’t have heat. They probably don’t have a natural gas hookup. The comic says the pay for electricity, but heck there are plenty of ways around that if you want. If you ever go out to rural places like these you’ll see cheap solar panels all over the place where it doesn’t make sense to run main voltage electricity, and in the hills you’ll find people running micro hydro. I am imagining they inherited the trailer and land or somehow managed to buy it in the past- trailers are cheap and land in rural areas is cheap. Property taxes… Maybe, but what no permanent construction on the property that’s going to be miniscule. Maybe cell phone bills? But with all the alternate forms of income I mentioned it’s not that much of a stretch to think that they could scrape together the money for that, if they wanted.
I’ve acknowledged elsewhere here that I was lucky, and college degrees have become more expensive and less valuable since I graduated. So I’m not sure why you seem to be accusing me of accusing poor people of being lazy. In fact that kind of goes against everything else that I’m saying here- the people in this comic appear to be living a virtuous and satisfying lifestyle without all the trappings of wealth and capitalism. I know people who live similar lifestyles and are quite happy.
You’re the one judging poor people here. Suggesting that wanting to live like this is immature or a sign of mental illness. The truth is that tons of people live like this and are happy. And while it’s not a lifestyle I personally want to embrace, there are lessons to be learned from studying other lifestyles. It’s important to ask what it is that we are spending money on, what we are working for, and what the opportunity cost of labor is.
No, what I am saying is that you are denying that the vast majority of people would not choose to live like that if they had a choice. It is simply what they fell into and all they know.
You said that poor people can go and do two degrees and what not. Sure, in fantasy land anyone can become anything. In real life, it’s not that simple and no, they cannot. Or they can, but with 10 times the effort of someone in a more privileged position. That is not to be expected of anyone just to live a self-fulfilled life.
I did not attack you personally and you don’t have to justify your life to me. I was pointing out that you are fortunate enough to be able to make that choice in life. Not everyone has the capacity to think and read about philosophies of any kind, and you do. Your conclusions come from a place of luxury and freedom that you are denying in your statements.
Comrade, you may have had a point earlier, but now you’re out here just throwing punches at people. Put down the phone.
Nah you can suck up to bourgeoisie bootlickers but I won’t
Ok 👍🏻
Glad you’re on the same page now.