What if the rent is fair and the property owner is not a profiteering corporation? What if I just moved to a bigger house and want to rent the old one to someone who doesn’t want to own one?
It’s hard to grasp this when your mentality is coming from a lifetime of capitalist propaganda, but yes, you’re stealing from someone.
Imagine a perfect world, where spacious modem homes are constructed in a responsible manner, and where anyone can live anywhere that’s available. No rent, no mortgage, no housing payments at all; housing as a right, funded by the public, and you live in a unit that suits your family in an area close to your workplace.
Now, we don’t live in this perfect world, but to complete the vision just to rule out common talking points: In this perfect world, the housing units are modern and spacious, since they aren’t produced by corporations for profit, there is no pressure to cut corners and no incentive to deliberately keep housing scarce. Construction is planned around need instead of return on investment: durable materials, good insulation, safe wiring, accessible design, decent sunlight, green space, and maintenance that’s done because people live there, not because a spreadsheet says it’s “worth it.” Neighborhoods aren’t carved up by speculation, and empty units aren’t treated like “assets” to hoard; if something sits vacant, it’s because it’s being repaired or repurposed, not because someone is waiting for the market to rise.
And here’s the part that matters for your question: in that world, you moving to a bigger home doesn’t create a private opportunity to extract money from someone else. It just means a smaller unit becomes available to someone who needs it, at no cost, because shelter isn’t a commodity.
But in this world, housing is artificially turned into a revenue stream. When you move up and keep the smaller place as a rental, you’re not “providing housing” the way a builder or a maintenance crew provides housing, you’re controlling access to something people must have to survive and charging them for permission to exist there.
The “fair price” argument only works if the market itself is fair. It isn’t. It’s shaped by scarcity, wage stagnation, barriers to ownership, and the simple fact that people can’t “opt out” of needing a home.
So yes: the theft isn’t that you’re charging above some moral ceiling, like you’d be fine if you just found the perfect number. The theft is the extraction itself, taking a cut from someone’s paycheck not because you produced their home, but because you happen to hold the deed while they have no real alternative. They pay, not out of freely chosen exchange, but because the alternative is displacement, overcrowding, or homelessness. That’s coercion dressed up as consent.
If you want a concrete way to think about it: imagine any other necessity, e.g., water, insulin, oxygen. If you had extra and someone needed it, charging them monthly for access because “that’s what the going rate is” would still feel like exploitation, even if you charged less than your neighbor. Housing is just as necessary; we’ve just been trained to treat the tollbooth as normal.
And to be clear, I’m not saying you’re uniquely evil, or that you invented the system. I’m saying the system makes it easy to feel innocent while benefiting from harm. The moral question isn’t “am I kinder than other landlords?” It’s “am I participating in a structure that turns someone’s need into my income?” If the answer is yes, then whatever the price, you’re taking something that should never have been up for sale in the first place.
The solution doesn’t come from small guys like you giving up their rental properties, because we know the corporations won’t give up theirs. The solution would be a move to that more perfect world, which forces both corporations and small landlords like yourself to give it all up at once.
I don’t blame you for trying to find a way out of the wave slavery situation we all face, but you’re trying to get out of it by becoming part of the problem. The problem is capitalism.
people in them would have to be perfect, they wouldn’t be people.
maybe you could have such a society if it were made of precisely programed robots, but people aren’t like that. They have this thing called free will.
you too, in this very post, are trying to profit and win by convincing others to believe what you believe. you want to score points just like everyone else.
it’s almost as if capitalism isn’t some ‘system’ it’s just a product of human competition for power and influence…
Edit: Oh, you’re offended that I said your rental property would be taken away from you, your opportunity to oppress someone else and have a small slice of the pie. If you could own an apartment building, you would, and you’d call yourself a little guy and not as bad as the big corporations.
Don’t worry though, when we take away your property and right to oppress others, we’ll guarantee you a nice living arrangement that you don’t have to pay for either.
Dude, I was laughing at the fact that you typed all that out. I didn’t even read it. It’s a stupid online forum. Go out that energy into more important things.
Eh, I’m sick and I’m bed. Really hoped I’d get you thinking and reflecting instead of shutting down, capitalism is ruining our kids’ futures and destroying our planet, it’s a very important thing.
Most of the people that I have rented from have been pretty kind, decent folks. I lived in one apartment building, that definitely sucked, and one 3 level that was section 8 besides us, and that landlord was on the scummy side, but didn’t argue about fixing things. Other than that, just people renting their first house that was too small after a point and they bought another. And I bought my house from the last one 40k under market because we were good tenants and had become friends.
Are the people that sold me their extra house 40k off evil?
well it wasn’t really a 40K discount if that transaction didn’t require real estate agents, it might have actaully netted them more money.
but your case is extremely rare. most people are bidding on the open market and don’t have that kind of luck. I’ve also been very lucky with renting, buying, and renting out my bedroom of the place i owned. but most people aren’t as lucky or as shrewd as i am.
There are bad people all around. Bad landlords, bad sellers, bad owners, bad renters, and there are criminal ones as well.
But the truth is most people are somewhere in the middle, they will have some good and bad experiences, some good and bad luck.
a gouged price is a price that exceeds the fair market value, due to a short term scarcity or other circumstance, that typically can’t be changed under normal circumstances.
but i’m guessing you don’t want a clear definition?
a fair market price is a price set under normal market conditions of supply and demand. Where I live a fair market rent for a 1 bedroom apartment is 3,000. Maybe people find that unfair because they can’t afford it. I can and I find it fair, and the vacancy rate in my city is below 1%, so 99% of people here also find that fair.
lots of people love to complain that is too much, but they are still willing to pay it. during the pandemic rents dropped a lot, due to a lack of demand and places were going for $2,000. but once it was over they went right back up again and even higher than they were before. were the landlord being ‘gouged’ by low rents when they couldn’t find anyone to rent their units in 2020-2021? or are they only gouging now that demand is high again and they can get 3.5K for one bedroom?
What if the rent is fair and the property owner is not a profiteering corporation? What if I just moved to a bigger house and want to rent the old one to someone who doesn’t want to own one?
Am I stealing from someone?
What if you put your hand upon my hip, when you dip, I dip, we dip?
What if I’ve got a girl named Rama Lama, Rama Lama Ding Dong?
How about oo-ee-oo-ah-ah-ting-tang-walla-walla-bing-bang?
What then?
Valid point.
It’s hard to grasp this when your mentality is coming from a lifetime of capitalist propaganda, but yes, you’re stealing from someone.
Imagine a perfect world, where spacious modem homes are constructed in a responsible manner, and where anyone can live anywhere that’s available. No rent, no mortgage, no housing payments at all; housing as a right, funded by the public, and you live in a unit that suits your family in an area close to your workplace.
Now, we don’t live in this perfect world, but to complete the vision just to rule out common talking points: In this perfect world, the housing units are modern and spacious, since they aren’t produced by corporations for profit, there is no pressure to cut corners and no incentive to deliberately keep housing scarce. Construction is planned around need instead of return on investment: durable materials, good insulation, safe wiring, accessible design, decent sunlight, green space, and maintenance that’s done because people live there, not because a spreadsheet says it’s “worth it.” Neighborhoods aren’t carved up by speculation, and empty units aren’t treated like “assets” to hoard; if something sits vacant, it’s because it’s being repaired or repurposed, not because someone is waiting for the market to rise.
And here’s the part that matters for your question: in that world, you moving to a bigger home doesn’t create a private opportunity to extract money from someone else. It just means a smaller unit becomes available to someone who needs it, at no cost, because shelter isn’t a commodity.
But in this world, housing is artificially turned into a revenue stream. When you move up and keep the smaller place as a rental, you’re not “providing housing” the way a builder or a maintenance crew provides housing, you’re controlling access to something people must have to survive and charging them for permission to exist there.
The “fair price” argument only works if the market itself is fair. It isn’t. It’s shaped by scarcity, wage stagnation, barriers to ownership, and the simple fact that people can’t “opt out” of needing a home.
So yes: the theft isn’t that you’re charging above some moral ceiling, like you’d be fine if you just found the perfect number. The theft is the extraction itself, taking a cut from someone’s paycheck not because you produced their home, but because you happen to hold the deed while they have no real alternative. They pay, not out of freely chosen exchange, but because the alternative is displacement, overcrowding, or homelessness. That’s coercion dressed up as consent.
If you want a concrete way to think about it: imagine any other necessity, e.g., water, insulin, oxygen. If you had extra and someone needed it, charging them monthly for access because “that’s what the going rate is” would still feel like exploitation, even if you charged less than your neighbor. Housing is just as necessary; we’ve just been trained to treat the tollbooth as normal.
And to be clear, I’m not saying you’re uniquely evil, or that you invented the system. I’m saying the system makes it easy to feel innocent while benefiting from harm. The moral question isn’t “am I kinder than other landlords?” It’s “am I participating in a structure that turns someone’s need into my income?” If the answer is yes, then whatever the price, you’re taking something that should never have been up for sale in the first place.
The solution doesn’t come from small guys like you giving up their rental properties, because we know the corporations won’t give up theirs. The solution would be a move to that more perfect world, which forces both corporations and small landlords like yourself to give it all up at once.
I don’t blame you for trying to find a way out of the wave slavery situation we all face, but you’re trying to get out of it by becoming part of the problem. The problem is capitalism.
perfect worlds don’t exist.
people in them would have to be perfect, they wouldn’t be people.
maybe you could have such a society if it were made of precisely programed robots, but people aren’t like that. They have this thing called free will.
you too, in this very post, are trying to profit and win by convincing others to believe what you believe. you want to score points just like everyone else.
it’s almost as if capitalism isn’t some ‘system’ it’s just a product of human competition for power and influence…
Lol ok
What part of what I said did you find humorous?
Edit: Oh, you’re offended that I said your rental property would be taken away from you, your opportunity to oppress someone else and have a small slice of the pie. If you could own an apartment building, you would, and you’d call yourself a little guy and not as bad as the big corporations.
Don’t worry though, when we take away your property and right to oppress others, we’ll guarantee you a nice living arrangement that you don’t have to pay for either.
They’re just a troll. I recommend reporting and judicious heckling.
Dude, I was laughing at the fact that you typed all that out. I didn’t even read it. It’s a stupid online forum. Go out that energy into more important things.
I haven’t seen this much angsty preteen energy in a comment since being on Reddit. Do your parents know you’re on Lemmy?
Hahah good one
Eh, I’m sick and I’m bed. Really hoped I’d get you thinking and reflecting instead of shutting down, capitalism is ruining our kids’ futures and destroying our planet, it’s a very important thing.
Hey man, we can’t have reasonable normal discourse in here.
Everything has to be vastly oversimplified and moralized into a hyperbolic statements measure against some ideal utopia society.
But the current system is broken and it can never be fixed and the only alternative is Star Trek utopian society.
do they murder and kill all the conservatives, moderates, and white people in Star Trek?
last time i saw it all the captains were white guys…
Most of the people that I have rented from have been pretty kind, decent folks. I lived in one apartment building, that definitely sucked, and one 3 level that was section 8 besides us, and that landlord was on the scummy side, but didn’t argue about fixing things. Other than that, just people renting their first house that was too small after a point and they bought another. And I bought my house from the last one 40k under market because we were good tenants and had become friends.
Are the people that sold me their extra house 40k off evil?
well it wasn’t really a 40K discount if that transaction didn’t require real estate agents, it might have actaully netted them more money.
but your case is extremely rare. most people are bidding on the open market and don’t have that kind of luck. I’ve also been very lucky with renting, buying, and renting out my bedroom of the place i owned. but most people aren’t as lucky or as shrewd as i am.
There are bad people all around. Bad landlords, bad sellers, bad owners, bad renters, and there are criminal ones as well.
But the truth is most people are somewhere in the middle, they will have some good and bad experiences, some good and bad luck.
Exactly. You rent a house? You are the equivalent of Jeff Bezos!
What is a fair rent?
Why do you even use the word fair in an economic context?
A price that isn’t gouged?
What is a gouged price? This looks like it will be a circular argument.
There is no fair price. https://dhspriory.org/kenny/PhilTexts/Marx/German/me19_247.htm
What is a circular argument?
I just used your debate tactic against you. Just keep asking people to define things and you’ll never have to make a point. It’s that easy.
a gouged price is a price that exceeds the fair market value, due to a short term scarcity or other circumstance, that typically can’t be changed under normal circumstances.
but i’m guessing you don’t want a clear definition?
a fair market price is a price set under normal market conditions of supply and demand. Where I live a fair market rent for a 1 bedroom apartment is 3,000. Maybe people find that unfair because they can’t afford it. I can and I find it fair, and the vacancy rate in my city is below 1%, so 99% of people here also find that fair.
lots of people love to complain that is too much, but they are still willing to pay it. during the pandemic rents dropped a lot, due to a lack of demand and places were going for $2,000. but once it was over they went right back up again and even higher than they were before. were the landlord being ‘gouged’ by low rents when they couldn’t find anyone to rent their units in 2020-2021? or are they only gouging now that demand is high again and they can get 3.5K for one bedroom?
Choose one