• Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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    17 hours ago

    Almost everyone has to work to not become homeless.

    That’s true. Let’s fix that.

    And still: Do you pay 30 to 50% of your income in your own home for that?

    • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
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      11 hours ago

      How to ‘fix’ that? Someone has to do the work to build and maintain housing? Should they do it for free?

      • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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        10 hours ago

        You could get rid of housing being a means for landlords to profit from and hold housing in a usufruct property relation, and/or in common. Building and maintaining housing can be managed by the community (or be payed for by the community).

          • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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            6 hours ago

            In a capitalist system, the government could print the money to give out a loan and destroy that money once the loan gets payed back to soften inflation.

            But ideally, building housing shouldn’t be done for profit, either. But I guess that would require capitalism to be abolished. Which would be - again - ideal.

            • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
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              3 hours ago

              Who takes out this loan? The person who wants to live in the home? What if they can’t afford to pay it back? Isn’t paying interest on the loan the same as paying rent, except now you’re stuck without being able to move, and no one else is there to fix your roof when it needs it?

              • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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                3 hours ago

                Who takes out this loan? The person who wants to live in the home?

                Yup. Or coops.

                What if they can’t afford to pay it back?

                What if someone can’t afford rent? I’d rather see the government eat the risk than see people go homeless.

                Isn’t paying interest on the loan the same as paying rent

                No, because if you pay rent, your rent becomes someone else’s capital. If you pay off the debt, you invest in your own property.

                except now you’re stuck without being able to move

                Who says you can’t transfer the home to someone who buys in? That’s an advantage of coops.

                and no one else is there to fix your roof when it needs it?

                Landlords usually don’t do that. They hire handymen to do this, so why can’t that be done by the person who lives there?

                • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
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                  3 hours ago

                  If a co-op takes the loan, aren’t they just becoming a landlord? And who does the work to organize it - are they paid? Isn’t that just like a landlord taking profit?
                  If you look at the government as just a collective of the people, then there’s no magical entity ‘eating the risk’ - it just means the people get screwed over and/or someone doesn’t get paid for their work.
                  Yes, you can use a handyman to fix your roof, but you have to pay them. And if you can’t afford to, you what - take more loan from the government which endlessly prints money?

                  • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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                    2 hours ago

                    If a co-op takes the loan, aren’t they just becoming a landlord?

                    No, because the people living in these places own a share in the coop. It’s distributing the load of repaying the loan on several shoulders and once it’s payed off, the rent becomes basically only the upkeep (rather than a source of income for the owners… because the owners are the ones who pay the “rent”).

                    And who does the work to organize it - are they paid?

                    Depends on how the coop manages it. But they could theoretically use part of the rent as payment for someone who manages the co-op.

                    Isn’t that just like a landlord taking profit?

                    No, cause that’s not profit. That’s part of upkeep. Do you know what “profit” is (i.e the difference between profit and income)?

                    If you look at the government as just a collective of the people

                    I don’t agree with that abstraction, but ok.

                    then there’s no magical entity ‘eating the risk’ - it just means the people get screwed over and/or someone doesn’t get paid for their work.

                    What are you talking about? Institutions aren’t “magic”. Risk of loss gets easier to manage if more people chip in. That’s the whole reason why insurances exist. And why diversifying a financial portfolio is the best strategy for banks. Yes, some will not be able to pay back their loans. But you can buffer that with interest by the ones that do pay them back.

                    Yes, you can use a handyman to fix your roof, but you have to pay them. And if you can’t afford to, you what - take more loan from the government which endlessly prints money?

                    And your alternative is that these people who can’t afford a handyman (or fix the roof themselves) can afford rent? Do you think paying rent every month is cheaper than hiring handymen? And evensif it were like that: how would the landlord afford the handyman? Why would they rent out their property, if rent was lower than the cost of upkeep? Your scenario doesn’t add up.