Thanks, but that guy doesn’t sound like he knows what he was talking about.
He literally admitted that he had to get “information” from grok, and he never fact checked it.
There was no attempt to find or disable cameras, microphones, seat pressure sensors, etc. Those cars he “disabled” are probably still collecting all of the data and storing it locally. Just waiting for a dealer to plug it in to upload everything.
We really need just one person with car hacking skills to document how to disable the sensors (and then do a forensic analysis to confirm the data is no longer being collected). Then we’ll all have at least one privacy car.
It was an example, there are deeper dive videos also, and links to kits to buy that bypasses the units but tells the car things are still fine.
Agreed we do nerd better hacking, but then Auto companies would sue
But that’s only for companies selling the hacking as a paid service. There is zero standing to sue a guy hacking his own car and providing the info for free on the Internet (or, eg, at defcon).
It’s not, I take things apart and repair them all the time. Those VOID stickers mean nothing. However the DMCA is expliclit on decryption, and that would be what they’d charge people with.
The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (“DMCA”) makes it illegal to circumvent technical measures (e.g., encryption, copy protection) that prevent access to copyrighted materials, such as computer software or media content.
Instead it will just store all the data locally and then upload it once it gets the airgap broken when the mechanic plugs it in.
The only safe solution here is to remove the sensors that collect the data. But I haven’t yet found aftermarket guides on how to do this with any major new car.
Thanks, but that guy doesn’t sound like he knows what he was talking about.
He literally admitted that he had to get “information” from grok, and he never fact checked it.
There was no attempt to find or disable cameras, microphones, seat pressure sensors, etc. Those cars he “disabled” are probably still collecting all of the data and storing it locally. Just waiting for a dealer to plug it in to upload everything.
We really need just one person with car hacking skills to document how to disable the sensors (and then do a forensic analysis to confirm the data is no longer being collected). Then we’ll all have at least one privacy car.
The level of involvement here is going to largely depend on the vehicle and how many sensors/cameras and other crap the manufacturer shoved in the car. Something like a Tesla? The only viable way forward is to hack the onboard computers that collect and report the data, there’s just too many codependent systems.
Most other cars, the only cameras installed are ones that you can access, like reverse cameras, plus maybe one for Lane keep or something? Which isn’t facing the cabin, the only risk there is that someone will know that you’re driving on a road, and maybe get your location if they’re really good at Geo guesser, they get lucky with a road sign, or they have GPS info (which is more likely).
Microphones, as far as I know the only cabin mic in most cars is for handsfree operation of phones and whatnot… Disabling that would ruin that functionality.
I’m sure there are cars that are more invasive on these fronts, but I dunno how much I’d want to bark up that tree.
For sensors, stuff like seat pressure sensors actually ties into SRS safety systems, so I’m not sure I’d want to mess with that. It could disable the passenger side airbag if the pressure switch is disabled… The driver side basically can’t be disabled, the car doesn’t go if there’s no driver, so even if the pressure switch is there and disabled, the SRS should still function. Belt sensors (to tell if the belts are fastened) all tie in here too.
A lot of the external sensors are either for adaptive cruise, driver awareness, or safety systems (like crash detection for SRS).
I’m just not sure going and unplugging a bunch of sensors is the way to go.
I would assume that the data collection would come from the CANbus, so it can operate without interfering with the functions of the car, or from the BCM/ECU or other various computers around the car directly.
If the monitoring device is independent of other systems, either remove it, or sabotage the connection between it and the CANbus. Should cover most of the data being collected.
Had anyone published a guide on how to strip these sensors yet?
Yes there’s a YouTube video for various disable techniques via fuses or jumper wire kits. Such as this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e09Kjj2awG0
Thanks, but that guy doesn’t sound like he knows what he was talking about.
He literally admitted that he had to get “information” from grok, and he never fact checked it.
There was no attempt to find or disable cameras, microphones, seat pressure sensors, etc. Those cars he “disabled” are probably still collecting all of the data and storing it locally. Just waiting for a dealer to plug it in to upload everything.
We really need just one person with car hacking skills to document how to disable the sensors (and then do a forensic analysis to confirm the data is no longer being collected). Then we’ll all have at least one privacy car.
It was an example, there are deeper dive videos also, and links to kits to buy that bypasses the units but tells the car things are still fine. Agreed we do nerd better hacking, but then Auto companies would sue
Right to repair prevents these sorts of law suits
But that’s only for companies selling the hacking as a paid service. There is zero standing to sue a guy hacking his own car and providing the info for free on the Internet (or, eg, at defcon).
Only thing they can do is void your warranty
They will claim decryption of proprietary code or something that violates Digital Rights Controls
People do that all the time. It’s not illegal to reverse engineer something you own (at least in the US).
It might be illegal to sell something from what you’ve reverse engineered
It’s not, I take things apart and repair them all the time. Those VOID stickers mean nothing. However the DMCA is expliclit on decryption, and that would be what they’d charge people with.
You could just pull out the LTE/IoT module, and disconnect the service…
Whether that will have major down sides for the usability of the vehicle is the big question.
No, that won’t work.
Instead it will just store all the data locally and then upload it once it gets the airgap broken when the mechanic plugs it in.
The only safe solution here is to remove the sensors that collect the data. But I haven’t yet found aftermarket guides on how to do this with any major new car.
Indeed, how do we remove this too :(. Crazy how many hoops we have to jump on things we “own”
YouTube for disabling on various models. Data removal is another issue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e09Kjj2awG0
Thanks, but that guy doesn’t sound like he knows what he was talking about.
He literally admitted that he had to get “information” from grok, and he never fact checked it.
There was no attempt to find or disable cameras, microphones, seat pressure sensors, etc. Those cars he “disabled” are probably still collecting all of the data and storing it locally. Just waiting for a dealer to plug it in to upload everything.
We really need just one person with car hacking skills to document how to disable the sensors (and then do a forensic analysis to confirm the data is no longer being collected). Then we’ll all have at least one privacy car.
The level of involvement here is going to largely depend on the vehicle and how many sensors/cameras and other crap the manufacturer shoved in the car. Something like a Tesla? The only viable way forward is to hack the onboard computers that collect and report the data, there’s just too many codependent systems.
Most other cars, the only cameras installed are ones that you can access, like reverse cameras, plus maybe one for Lane keep or something? Which isn’t facing the cabin, the only risk there is that someone will know that you’re driving on a road, and maybe get your location if they’re really good at Geo guesser, they get lucky with a road sign, or they have GPS info (which is more likely). Microphones, as far as I know the only cabin mic in most cars is for handsfree operation of phones and whatnot… Disabling that would ruin that functionality.
I’m sure there are cars that are more invasive on these fronts, but I dunno how much I’d want to bark up that tree.
For sensors, stuff like seat pressure sensors actually ties into SRS safety systems, so I’m not sure I’d want to mess with that. It could disable the passenger side airbag if the pressure switch is disabled… The driver side basically can’t be disabled, the car doesn’t go if there’s no driver, so even if the pressure switch is there and disabled, the SRS should still function. Belt sensors (to tell if the belts are fastened) all tie in here too.
A lot of the external sensors are either for adaptive cruise, driver awareness, or safety systems (like crash detection for SRS).
I’m just not sure going and unplugging a bunch of sensors is the way to go.
I would assume that the data collection would come from the CANbus, so it can operate without interfering with the functions of the car, or from the BCM/ECU or other various computers around the car directly.
If the monitoring device is independent of other systems, either remove it, or sabotage the connection between it and the CANbus. Should cover most of the data being collected.