- cross-posted to:
- world@quokk.au
- cross-posted to:
- world@quokk.au
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Kitchen serves Caesar salad that was created 100 years ago in Tijuana by Italian immigrant Caesar Cardini when his hotel restaurant was short on ingredients.
It also serves “Kilpatrick”, which is oysters served with “Grilled finely chopped bacon with Worcestershire, BBQ, Dijon, ketchup, Tabasco, lemon juice and smoked paprika”.
Precursors to pizza used things like dates and other fruits as toppings.
The menu has meat all over it, which to me reads more like an Italian-American thing where meat over here was super cheap and thus became increasingly incorporated into Italian dishes.
And of course modern pizza uses a key ingredient not even available until it was brought back from the New World.
But sure, this is a step too far and an affront to her culture.
Wait until this guy hears how many pizzarias are run by Greek folks, rather than Italians. His heart will explode, I’m sure.
We have a pretty large amount of pizzarias owned by people with turkish roots here too! They often also offer Kebap, and some even provide Kebap Pizza.
“Greeks are Turks that think they are Italians.”
Greeks mogging Romans once again.
The Romans came in and saved the Greeks’ asses twice with no strings attached just because they were the Greeks’ fanboys. Romans mogged the everloving fuck out of the Greeks.
Computer, define “mogged”
… I’m sorry, for your own safety I can not provide you with that information.
Italians: “You can’t put fruit on pizza!!1!”
Tomatoes: -_-
Tomatoes aren’t Italian.
But sure, this is a step too far
Cuisine is an element of culture and so a socially-defined thing. Few would argue that espresso isn’t a part of Italian cuisine, but it was only really invented in the 1930s (coffee had been consumed in Italy for long before that, of course). Ciabatta was invented in 1982 and I’m sure most Italians would be fine with serving that.
But pineapple on pizza is not just not part of the socially-defined Italian cuisine; it’s an antithesis to it! It’s an emblem to everyone of how you can take something that is part of a cuisine (pizza) and do something to it that is completely at odds with it. Whether you like pineapple on pizza or not, that should be clear.
So, it shouldn’t be surprising that some people feel strongly enough about what is and isn’t part of their cuisine and draw the line there. In my experience, many Italians do feel very strongly about their cuisine, more so than any other nationality I’ve talked to about food. Try asking some what they think about spaghetti and meatballs for an example that seems innocuous to most non-Italians.
I respect such viewpoints but I do think there are plenty of people who hold them without really understanding them - who don’t realise how malleable cultural elements like cuisine are and who think they’re actually upholding an objective and immutable standard. That’s clearly wrong, but just because what is part of a cuisine changes doesn’t mean everything is part of a cuisine.
For restaurants there’s a decision to make - do you stick to what you hold to be the authentic cuisine, or do something more accommodating of globalised expectations? There’s room for both… and individual cooks who aren’t the restaurant owner or whatever probably don’t get to make the call.
Good points. But I would argue that pizza more than almost any dish (maybe rivaled by hamburgers?) has far transcended its roots and become a true global phenomenon.
“Hawaiian” pizza, generally considered the origin of pineapple as a topping, started in Canada in 1962*. That’s almost 65 years ago and 20 years older than your example of Ciabatta.
[*] Or possibly Portland, OR in 1957.
Unarguably it’s a global phenomenon. And personally I don’t greatly value authenticity - or adherence to a particularly canonical cuisine - but changes to a cuisine’s canon don’t just happen due to time passed; that was really my point with the ciabatta example, that it is accepted in spite of being very recent. I haven’t asked anyone explicitly about ciabatta, but I would guess that even though it happened recently, it’d be accepted by most Italians, even those who are fairly strict about what counts as authentic, as Italian cuisine.
Why, even though it’s so recent? Well, in the end it’s about social agreement, not rules, but there are probably some reasons that go into that agreement: it was developed in Italy; it has similarities to existing cuisine; those similarities were consciously developed; it doesn’t violate any implicit expectations in the existing cuisine. Hawaiian pizza certainly doesn’t share those aspects. That doesn’t mean that it couldn’t be accepted, but it means it’s harder.
To take another example, sandwiches are an accepted part of British cuisine, and have also well and truly transcended those roots and become global. But that doesn’t mean that banh mi are part of British cuisine!
I mean, you aren’t eating it though, and NGL pineapple on pizza is fantastic, especially with some bacon and onion.
If I’m a sculpter and get a commission, I don’t really care what they want me to make. It’s their property, my paycheck
Jalapeno, pepperoni and pineapple is fire. If you can get dried or candied pineapple it’s better than canned on a pizza. Drying it out first gives it a chance to take on a bit of char and it’s genuinely delightful.
I think the prevalence of canned pineapple is a big part of the problem. Most canned stuff just isn’t all that good on pizza.
Dry it out on some kitchen roll before you put it on, really helps.
Dickbutt. I want a 12 foot tall granite Dickbutt to drop in my Wyoming property. I want alien archeologists to discover it thousands of years from now and proceed to spend decades debating it.
Pineapple salsa with cilantro, peppers. Onion, too, is amazing
I got a paywall, so here’s another article.
Short version. Chef was on an employment visa, and had allegedly refused to make it on several cases. Owner was annoyed but sympathetic as he doesn’t really like it either, but they had a large group (estimated AU$15k) event, and the paying customer had requested ham and pineapple pizza. Chef refused. Owner fired him but waited as long as possible to inform Immigration, hoping the final visa would come through. Chef claimed it was retaliation “partly” over a broken hand, but tribunal said he’d waited too long to bring it up. Eventually, restaurant closed but chef found other work and is still in the country.
Another article says there were other things, “including allegations relating to foul language, communication issues and escalating frustration at work.” Sounds like the chef was a bit of a cliched chef personality, to be honest, and maybe not talented enough to pull that act off. If the restaurant is also not doing well, then I could see the “Italians must not put pineapple on pizza” thing being a lot less cute if it messed up a big event.
What a cunt.
Tomatoes are from the New World so I hope he also refuses to put marinara sauce on his pizza. Otherwise he’s just a hypocritical dickhead.
Italian culture began in 1945. Prior to that it was something else we don’t talk about that. Also 1492 counts but not the other things that someone did. Just the discovery part. Which totally happened and it was totally a real discovery and not some dipshit getting lost. Which is why the Americas are named after an Italian. Just not that Italian. That’s how gracious he was.
Who says he didn’t want to put it on because it’s from the new world? I wrote my full thoughts here
Correct… in the end, this is just one of those miserable humans who will just spread their misery around until they die
Because I don’t like something, you’re not allowed to like it either.
That’s basically how fear for change, fear for foreigners, fear for people with another skin colour, fear for languages and all other kinds of fear work, like fear for pineapple.
I understand an Italian not liking it but this is the customer ordering it.
Nah man. He’s in the pineapple capital of Australia. If I go to Italy and order pineapple and ham on pizza, sure, I’m in the wrong. That’s not a cultural thing they do there.
But this dude wasn’t in Italy. He was in a place where pineapple is insanely popular. The culture there is to put pineapple on things. They put pineapple in places you’d never expect pineapple to be because that’s what you do when you have a lot of fresh pineapple. He lives there. He knows that. He’s a chef, he should know better.
Now excuse me, I’m going to make a pineapple canoli because that sounds dope.
Nah man. He’s in the pineapple capital of Australia. If I go to Italy and order pineapple and ham on pizza, sure, I’m in the wrong. That’s not a cultural thing they do there.
You can absolutely get pizza Hawaii in Italy. I know a couple of Italian food elitists but they only care about having the right dough, thickness and baking method, not the toppings.
Yeah it’s not like the original Italian pizza had fruit on it or anything…
This is pretty on brand. If you try and tell an Italian ragu is something other than what they make as ragu in their home town they will start an intergenerational blood feud with you. This dickhead’s family originates from Bologna, its not even the home of pizza.
Why not review the menu, and if for some reason, one of the items is offensive to you, either try to reach a compromise, or fucking leave and go somewhere else?
In the United States, this would be a violation of religious rights and, with a Catholic-dominated Supreme Court, it would be enforced.
