Are you referring to the soviet prisons in general as “re-education camps?” An enormous number of prison deaths occured during World War II, when famine was widespread due to the Nazis storming Ukraine, the USSR’s breadbasket. On the whole, soviet prisons and the justice system itself were more progressive than their peers, Mary Stevenson Callcott documented it quite well in Russian Justice.
The soviet union, despite having a progressive legal system, was in a state of constant turmoil caused by pressures both external and internal. They couldn’t simply delete all previously existing ruling-class people and ideology, class struggle continues under socialism. Further, pressure from the imperialist west, invasion both in threat and in action, and intentional sabateurs meant that the prisons certainly weren’t empty. The soviet union never had a single year of normal, stable growth, free from intense opposition on the outside and counter-revolutionary forces on the inside.
I’ll state it again, as I said in my other comment: the red scare existed because porkie was terrified of a system that stood to steal from under their feet the very foundation they set up for their total reign.
I encourage you to learn more about the topic, we’re all taught to hate communism and be doomers, by our families, schools, media and so on, but when you look at the facts communism is better for the vast majority of people, those who do all the work but receive less compensation for it. The surplus of our work is stolen by those who own stuff.
You presume too much about my background. You are also missing the fact that every attempt at communism has somehow also resulted in a small group of elites stealing the surplus labor.
No? Socialism and capitalism have delivered demonstrably different results precisely because the social surplus within socialism was and is directed towards fulfilling the needs of the people, via large projects and social programs, which under capitalism are limited due to the capitalist class entitling itself to the vast majority of the surplus.
While you’re correct in that propaganda isn’t necessarily false, I said you’re repeating anticommunist propaganda, which is notorious for being a mix of exaggeration, bad faith interpretation and outright fabrication. We all learn that bs, unfortunately not all of us do the work to go over the claims and realize just how much it all rests on misrepresenting and misunderstanding history.
All history is misrepresented. That’s one thing that definitely isn’t exclusive to capitalism. It’s funny how every argument I get from communism cheerleaders always comes down to some variation of “you are dumb”. It’s kinda pathetic.
I’ve been nothing but respectful in our exchanges here despite you constantly acting smug and being confidently incorrect. If you’re not ready to be respectful back or at least consider whether your deflections are justified or not we have nothing more to discuss here.
I did educate myself, and in so doing I learned that false statements with absolute terms are easily disproven. I noticed a distinct lack of disproof in your reply. All heat, no light.
It’s not an adhominem also you can’t prove a negative the burden of proof is on you. You’re doing a Russell’s teapot. You have made a statement that is false with no evidence to back up your claim.
You can’t prove a negative, but they are easy to disprove if they are false. My assertion is logically negative, even if I didn’t phrase it that way. One positive counter example would prove it false. Got one? The evidence of my claim is that no counter examples exist. How do I cite the lack of something?
I made a claim that would be trivial to disprove with a single example. The proof is that there are none. How exactly do I cite something that doesn’t exist?
What would you accept as proof?
The USSR brought dramatic democratization to society. First-hand accounts from Statesian journalist Anna Louise Strong in her book This Soviet World describe soviet elections and factory councils in action. Statesian Pat Sloan even wrote Soviet Democracy to describe in detail the system the soviets had built for curious Statesians to read about, and today we have Professor Roland Boer’s Socialism in Power: On the History and Theory of Socialist Governance to reference.
How could they have materially been more democratic in a way that would satisfy you?
When it comes to social progressivism, the soviet union was among the best out of their peers, so instead we must look at who was actually repressed outside of the norm. In the USSR, it was the capitalist class, the kulaks, the fascists who were repressed. This is out of necessity for any socialist state. When it comes to working class freedoms, however, the soviet union represented a dramatic expansion. Soviet progressivism was documented quite well in Albert Syzmanski’s Human Rights in the Soviet Union.
In what way were they more repressive than their peers?
Soviet reeducation camps and the million plus people that died in them disagree.
I think both capitalist and communist propaganda is full of shit, but damn.
Are you referring to the soviet prisons in general as “re-education camps?” An enormous number of prison deaths occured during World War II, when famine was widespread due to the Nazis storming Ukraine, the USSR’s breadbasket. On the whole, soviet prisons and the justice system itself were more progressive than their peers, Mary Stevenson Callcott documented it quite well in Russian Justice.
The soviet union, despite having a progressive legal system, was in a state of constant turmoil caused by pressures both external and internal. They couldn’t simply delete all previously existing ruling-class people and ideology, class struggle continues under socialism. Further, pressure from the imperialist west, invasion both in threat and in action, and intentional sabateurs meant that the prisons certainly weren’t empty. The soviet union never had a single year of normal, stable growth, free from intense opposition on the outside and counter-revolutionary forces on the inside.
I’ll state it again, as I said in my other comment: the red scare existed because porkie was terrified of a system that stood to steal from under their feet the very foundation they set up for their total reign.
I encourage you to learn more about the topic, we’re all taught to hate communism and be doomers, by our families, schools, media and so on, but when you look at the facts communism is better for the vast majority of people, those who do all the work but receive less compensation for it. The surplus of our work is stolen by those who own stuff.
You presume too much about my background. You are also missing the fact that every attempt at communism has somehow also resulted in a small group of elites stealing the surplus labor.
No? Socialism and capitalism have delivered demonstrably different results precisely because the social surplus within socialism was and is directed towards fulfilling the needs of the people, via large projects and social programs, which under capitalism are limited due to the capitalist class entitling itself to the vast majority of the surplus.
No judgement intended, but you’re literally echoing anticommunist propaganda, I encourage you to keep learning.
Propaganda is not necessarily false. All you are saying is that I’m not aligned with your political project. You are correct.
While you’re correct in that propaganda isn’t necessarily false, I said you’re repeating anticommunist propaganda, which is notorious for being a mix of exaggeration, bad faith interpretation and outright fabrication. We all learn that bs, unfortunately not all of us do the work to go over the claims and realize just how much it all rests on misrepresenting and misunderstanding history.
All history is misrepresented. That’s one thing that definitely isn’t exclusive to capitalism. It’s funny how every argument I get from communism cheerleaders always comes down to some variation of “you are dumb”. It’s kinda pathetic.
Have you considered you get called dumb because “it is known” isn’t a valid argument outside of liberal spaces.
I’ve been nothing but respectful in our exchanges here despite you constantly acting smug and being confidently incorrect. If you’re not ready to be respectful back or at least consider whether your deflections are justified or not we have nothing more to discuss here.
You only think you’ve been respectful because you haven’t done the work to move beyond the bs version of “respect” you were indoctrinated with.
Do you find that respectful?
It took you exactly one reply to arrive at “well what is truth, anyway?”
That is completely false. You have no clue what you are talking about. If you want to talk about something, try educating yourself first
I did educate myself, and in so doing I learned that false statements with absolute terms are easily disproven. I noticed a distinct lack of disproof in your reply. All heat, no light.
Obviously you didn’t
Funny how all you can do is throw out ad hominems.
It’s not an adhominem also you can’t prove a negative the burden of proof is on you. You’re doing a Russell’s teapot. You have made a statement that is false with no evidence to back up your claim.
You can’t prove a negative, but they are easy to disprove if they are false. My assertion is logically negative, even if I didn’t phrase it that way. One positive counter example would prove it false. Got one? The evidence of my claim is that no counter examples exist. How do I cite the lack of something?
And yeah, it was a textbook ad hominem.
You don’t even know what your debate pervert words mean. Read a book dude
LOL, and another ad hominem. At least you guys get points for consistency.
You made a claim, backed by nothing, and now you want evidence against it?
Evidenceless claims can be dismissed evidenceless.
I made a claim that would be trivial to disprove with a single example. The proof is that there are none. How exactly do I cite something that doesn’t exist?
What would you accept as proof? The USSR brought dramatic democratization to society. First-hand accounts from Statesian journalist Anna Louise Strong in her book This Soviet World describe soviet elections and factory councils in action. Statesian Pat Sloan even wrote Soviet Democracy to describe in detail the system the soviets had built for curious Statesians to read about, and today we have Professor Roland Boer’s Socialism in Power: On the History and Theory of Socialist Governance to reference.
How could they have materially been more democratic in a way that would satisfy you?
When it comes to social progressivism, the soviet union was among the best out of their peers, so instead we must look at who was actually repressed outside of the norm. In the USSR, it was the capitalist class, the kulaks, the fascists who were repressed. This is out of necessity for any socialist state. When it comes to working class freedoms, however, the soviet union represented a dramatic expansion. Soviet progressivism was documented quite well in Albert Syzmanski’s Human Rights in the Soviet Union.
In what way were they more repressive than their peers?
We all know the answer is nothing