• im_fine_sandy@nord.pub
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    23 hours ago

    What we might want and what actually happens are different things.

    Yes, but we’re sat here commenting on a picture of police protecting corporate property during a protest, so we are dealing exclusively with “what we might want”

    Everyone piling on complaining that police shouldn’t be doing that, but no one has any idea what a competent and well trained police force would be doing instead.

    • fratermus@piefed.social
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      3 hours ago

      I apologize in advance for the long reply. In my defense A) I am retired; and B) I had two cups of coffee this morning.

      TL;DR: I don’t know for sure what’s happening in the picture. I do know that police forces are agents of the State. I will suggest below that police forces are not structured for (and have no significant interest in) protecting or serving the public.


      Yes, but we’re sat here commenting on a picture of police protecting corporate property during a protest, so we are dealing exclusively with “what we might want”

      Seems to me that the picture is of “what actually happens”. Or happened at that moment.

      Everyone piling on complaining that police shouldn’t be doing that,

      I didn’t say anything about what the police in the pic were doing.

      no one has any idea what a competent and well trained police force would be doing instead.

      what a competent and well trained NYPD would be doing instead:

      • the NYPD’s official mottto is Faithful Unto Death. Doesn’t shed much light on what they should be doing.
      • the NYPD Street Crime unit’s motto was We Own The Night . That seems a little sketchy to me. Like a statement of power rather than an indication of what they should be doing.
      • the NYPD’s old cruiser slogan was Courtesy, Professionalism, Respect . Indicates how they aspired to behave but not what they should have been doing.
      • the NYPD’s new slogan cruiser slogan is Fighting Crime, Protecting The Public . Now we have something to work with, a clear statement of what they think they should be doing.

      So. Are the officers in the pic fighting crime and/or protecting the public? It’s not clear to me that they are but I’m willing to listen to other interpretations.

      what a competent and well trained police force would be doing instead:

      Normatively, I might say

      • intervening in criminal behavior they observe
      • responding to reports of active criminal behavior
      • investigating reports of past criminal behavior they did not witness
      • first response (along with firefighters and EMTs) to emergency situations

      Descriptively,

      • catching slaves and returning them to their owners, historically speaking. Radley Balko does a good job laying this out.
      • providing an income stream to the State
      • NOT providing any particular police service to anyone - Warren v. District of Columbia
      • NOT being too intelligent - Jordan v. City of New London
      • uttering the magic words like “I suspect this was involved in a crime” and seizing [cars, houses, cash, whatever]. Bonus points for using seized assets to buy frozen margarita machines.
      • manipulating suspects (Reid technique) and lying to them (Frazier v. Cupp). It’s illegal for suspects to lie, though. Laws for thee but not for me.

      Basically citizens are forced to pay for a police force under penalty of fine or imprisonment, but the police don’t have to do anything for the citizen. And the police can steal the citizen’s stuff with effective impunity. Don’t get me started on Q.A. or the incestuous relationships PDs have with DAs (the latter having absolute rather than just qualified immunity).

    • kestrel7_7@lemmy.world
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      5 hours ago

      Yes we do know exactly how a competent police force would act. They would arrest the capitalists who run Amazon and enforce the legal rights of the workers who are being exploited. I won’t hold my breath.