…yes? That’s what you have to do. Maybe she says no. Maybe she says yes. Doing nothing definitely won’t get you anywhere.
If she says no it doesn’t come without consequences. You can’t talk to her anymore without it being awkward, and if she’s part of a larger friend group you’re in the embarrassment is even worse.
You’re overthinking it. I know because I do the same. But realistically most women are quite relieved when you can take a kind “no” in stride because the bar is so low in this regard.
This is what “blind to privilege” means… LOL
I have had more than one. I am autistic with an anxiety disorder and ptsd and I had guys who aren’t those things always talk to me about girls like I am super pick up master just because inam decently looking and in shape. They way they talked about their experiences made me kinda not want any, too…
And no matter how much I tried to explain my situation when asking for advice they just gave sabotaging and extremely vague advice that doesn’t mean anything. I wasted away my 20s and a large part of my 30s because of shit like that.
Like what exactly?
Just saying ‘go online’ and nothing else for starters. I ‘went online’ in the mid-2000s and found nothing but PUA and early manosphere crap that was utterly stupid and did far more damage to me socially in the long term that I didn’t even begin to fix until more than 13 years after the fact. It didn’t bring any positive results either. But due to my circumstances I just really didn’t know any better.
Also when I did ‘go online’ or ‘to bars’ and I described some highly weird experiences that I knew weren’t normal they would twist the events so badly that it makes me wonder if they were the autistic ones and not me.
For example when I was 22 years old, I went to a bar and started talking to this woman. She was older than me and kinda vague, lied to me about her name, lied about her martial status (before taking everything back, but never telling me her real name). This was in Dubai I might add, so the social dynamic is a very different place than it would be in north america… and would also really come back to bite me later. The only shit I had to go by was offering her a drink at the start…
But here is a kicker… no one ever bought her a drink before. Apparently she literally did not watch any western media or ignored whatever was on screen. Because the whole concept of anyone walking up to anyone in a bar and buying them a drink was a legit alien experience to her.
Long story short… I saw her a second time a few weeks later at the same bar and she had some friends with her. She treated me like I was an ATM and basically thought that as long as she groped at me inappropriately (she even grabbed my head and shoved it against her breasts, forcibly I might add since I tried to resist) she could ask for meals and drinks and spending money for her and her friends (without the slightest hint of reciprocal sex). However she and friends were giddy and laughing while doing it.
I described the situation to them as I am here without mentioning the whole ‘this person never had a person buy her a drink’ but I DID add it later.
However this did nothing to convince them that they were trying to manipulate them, and they insisted that actually I should have gone for it and lost my virginity in a threesome with some MILFs that day. I am mildly exaggerating, but that was the gist of it.
BTW, just as an FYI, in many bars I went to in Dubai, they were lousy with sex workers. I did have plenty of girls touch me and act all giddy (but not ask for anything) and offer me ‘massages’ (which is a thinly veiled euphemism for sex in case it wasn’t obvious) for reasonable prices. The guys I was talking to weren’t in the middle east and just could not wrap their heads around my experiences being different from theirs.
Even with going online, they said nothing about where to go, how to make a good profile, what pictures to use or anything. Even trying to message people they insisted that you must never say anything other than ‘hi’ at first. This is even when they actually showed me what they did and had giant text walls that they sent detailing whatever was on her profile. I wasn’t able to replicate those, but their advice was just designed to make me waste my time.
Long story short. I am 41 now. Not a virgin, but dealing with a lot of bullshit. I dont care who I tell this to, but I am prepping to see a sexual therapist. I am practically writing my autobiography so I can just give it to them and bring them up to speed so I don’t waste tons of time and money just going on and on with the sessions. I need actual help and not just someone to talk to.
I’m sorry you had that experience. I had a similar, but different, experience. You keep referring to “they” who were giving you advice - who were these people and where did you meet them? It seems like this was a consistent group?
I eventually found some good advice, which boils down to:
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Be honest. Be honest with people about who you are and what you are interested in. Some people might not like what you are offering. Some might even be offended. But this is all fine, as long as you are honest and respectful and talk to each woman with the assumption that the two of you are on the same team of figuring out if you are interested in each other.
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Improve yourself. For most guys with dating issues, this includes things like going to therapy, building a healthy social life, being physically healthy, and generally being a happy person.
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Talk to lots of women. People are different and want different things. In order to find the women who want what you have to offer, who are themselves offering what you want yourself, you need to talk to a lot of women.
Improving at these things is best accomplished from a place of a positive mindset, good mental health, and with a strong support system.
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but holy SHIT did he make me look bad. I need to mention that everything he said was a lie. and I even pointed out to him then and there that going to that group was his idea, not mine, and I pointed out to him that everyone around him who was in a relationship did not do anything remotely close to what he was saying.
Then he admitted to me that A: He never had a girlfriend, B: Never dated, C: had no idea how people actually met, and D: Was possibly a virgin. In short, I was extensively more experienced than he was, despite being from overseas.
I could go on forever, but I will stop here (gotta save it for my therapist). You actually did offer some real advice, and I did go out on some brunches on meetup.com and I am much calmer than I was before, and the girls there did talk to me far more than they did previously. Doesn’t mean I am going to getting laid left and right, but it is a much better start, and I actually have far more support from my job and the few family and friends that I have contact with, I had to cut out so many people from my life it isn’t funny.
Well, I gotta say, that was a wild ride.
Personally, I grew up emotionally disconnected, unsupported, socially isolated, and bullied. Like, kids at school making fun of me for wearing clothes that hadn’t been washed, because my parents either didn’t notice or didn’t care. I ended up depressed, socially anxious, and socially stunted as a result. For years as a kid, I prayed for the day that I would have the courage to pick the lock on my dad’s gun and blow my own brains out.
Luckily, I moved out of my folks house at 18 to go to college, and have barely been back since. I avoid spending time with my parents as much as possible, since I seem to have pavlovian conditioning such that being around them triggers my depression, and leads to excessive alcohol consumption.
After agonizing about it for years, I finally lost my virginity at 23. After that, I failed to sleep with another girl for years. At 29, I panicked, said FUCK THIS!! and decided to do whatever it took. So I found a paint-by-numbers guide to getting laid on Tinder on the internet, followed it to the T, and managed to actually start sleeping with women.
I’ll say, the experience made me happier and changed my life for the better. It made me a better person. But at the same time, it didn’t solve all my problems. And also, the couple months of effort that I put in at 29 was really just the culmination of work I’d been putting into myself and my life since I was 13. I still have some heavy emotional problems I’m dealing with - but feeling sexually desireable isn’t one of them anymore, and I’m grateful for that.
To me, it sounds like you’ve been through the shit, and you are taking the right steps. You’re cutting out people who make you miserable - that’s excellent. You are going out to meetups and meeting people. Awesome. You are going to therapy - that is fucking amazing. Seriously, the fact that you’ve been knocked down so many times and are still getting back up is something to be proud of.
Our culture is really weird about sex and dating, so it is really hard to find good advice. I think my best advice is to focus on improving yourself to be more datable for a while (like, yeah, it’s okay to want more people to be into you!), and then to take a break and focus on other things, before coming back to it. You get better at things when you focus on them. But you also need to relax and be happy and not be one dimensional. So alternate back and forth, hopefully without burning out.
I recommend you spend as much time as possible meeting new people and cultivating friendships. Dating and improving yourself is so much easier when you have a deep and wide network of friends to lean on.
For a macro view of how to become a more datable man, I recommend the book Models by Mark Manson. It boils down to “don’t be needy”. If you want to know how to not be needy, you might have heard of the next book he wrote to answer that question - The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck.
If you have problems moving things forward with women - anything from introducing yourself to asking them on a date to getting them into bed - the best advice I ever heard is “stop trying to be smooth.” You are autistic. This is actually a superpower in dating, because you will have a hard time sending and receiving the subconscious, unspoken cues most people give each other. Instead, you use your autism to be direct - tell girls exactly what you are thinking and exactly what you want. Ask them what they are thinking and what they want when you are uncertain. Just be autistically honest. As long as you are honest and respectful, just say anything that pops into your head. “Hey, I saw you over here and thought you were really pretty. What’s up? I’m John.” “I’m glad you agreed to go on this date with me, but I have to say, I’m kinda nervous.” “You have a beautiful smile and it makes me want to kiss you.” “I’m having a good time with you tonight. Do you wanna go back to my place?” “You seem nervous. Are you okay?”
At the same time, learning to flirt and communicate effectively is a process that doesn’t happen overnight. To learn how to flirt, I recommend a book called “The Inner Game of Tennis”. Read it, and everywhere it says “Tennis” just replaced that with “flirting”.
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