My how fast the AI tech bros move to protect corporations but don’t move to protect the average coder, artists, writers.
It’s not ok when the commoners get some power back huh. What a shame, I’ve been loving playing my favorite console fps games as a kid, now with keyboard and mouse support.
Don’t worry! Its STILL okay to reverse engineer the work of photographers artists writers actors voice over musicians modelers animators academics etc etc (feel free to add. the exploitation is literally everywhere!)
More power and value to the open weight models, cool
The task Large Language Models are best at is pattern correlation. Out of all the possible applications, reverse-engineering seems the most reasonable use case to me.
But figuring out how stuff works is the exact opposite of what they want vibe coders to do: Don’t think, don’t train your own skills, just trust the machine. And if it doesn’t work, just prompt again and keep wasting more tokens, pushing the usage metrics to convince investors they’re constantly growing, burning the planet and your company’s money.
Man, the one thing I was interested in, the decompiling of abandoned software to get old games and software back, is being limited.
It’s like watching the Nazi party ban the rape of Jewish women in 1944
When it hurts jobs, AI is the future, when it hurts rich friends needs moderation.
This was literally destroying indie games. Look at the deluge of slop that came out when ‘sort items onto shelves’ kicked off as a game type.
Indies have been copied since Unity introduced the asset store, don’t fool yourself, this is made to stop the reverse engineering of big company games and apps, not the little guy.
Now only the people that have enough money to pay for the privilege get to use it!!! Hurray?
That was always the plan
But it can still do it. Just not for us.
sounds like adobe made some calls.
AI finally comes up with something I would use it for, and so of course they have to lock it down. Ha! Fuck these clowns.
“AI is going to make everything free!!” Proceeds to make video games free. “No, not that, shut it down!”
Would you spend 13 years making GTA VI if it was going to be cracked day 1? Why bother? Just let the users vibe code it.
That’s literally what happens to every game on PC and jailbroken consoles, you can pirate Witcher 3 since launch and it still sold more than 10 million copies.
No new tech will make us free if it’s controlled by the slaver class.
The open models aren’t controlled by them though.
Exactly, and that’s why they fucked the ram priced before they kicked into high gear, to repress us
But we do own RAM, do they plan to buy all of it indefinitely? All sorts of other businesses still need computers so they will be buying them even if they cost more, and when they replace them the old ones can be sold off.
There is even the possibility of crowd sourced AI, I know AI horde exists although I think its pretty small and I haven’t touched it in a few years now.
This is what winning the AI race looks like.
This is part of the reason they don’t want anyone running models locally offline, the models and their entire business are commoditized
- LLM bubble pops.
- Market gets flooded with $200b worth of hardware (this is how much is not used to Zitrons knowledge).
- ???
- Subscription based LLM gets cooked.
hardware that people cant USE, they are solely used for AI in those datacenters, its just going to be e-waste.
You used to be able to BIOS flash workstation GPUs to make them somewhat usable for gaming… not sure how far these AI GPUs have diverged from gaming cards these days and if a BIOS flash could make them playable.
They don’t even have headers for soldering a display output to them. They’re purely a compute card.
It’d work nicely as a pure accelerator for an actual GPU though, with the right firmware.
Almost back to the 3DFX pass-through days again… 😁
AI GPUs have specialized very heavily for neural networks, including things like going down to 8- or 4-bit floats in favor of more parallelization. Most of that hardware is just useless for graphics tasks at this point.
Government bales out AI companies and the bill they write to do it will make local LLMs illegal.
Piracy is illegal and they are of course doing a great job at stopping that…
I think you are right, but that seems VERY unenforceable.
Successful enforcement doesn’t look like catching every pivate LLM owner.
Except the people I hear running “local models” report a lot of hardware, like a half dozen graphics cards. The common person is screwed, they have a smartphone.
Two or three years ago sure. Now…not even close. Tons of models run on basically shit now. Especially with MOEs. I run new lightweight models on an i9 and 64gb of ddr4 ram with a 4gb quadro card…in a laptop from 19’.
I think this is why a lot of these tech bros are saying silly shit about suggesting people need to rent from them. That’s their entire shtick. Otherwise they got nothing else.
Got some references and keywords for research?
This guy does a great brain dump on how little is needed to run LLMs on basically old junk.
Bails
Local LLMs will never be illegal, because that genie is out of the bag
With what money? No one is buying bonds. The US would have to print so hard it’d cause hyperinflation, which still means the bubble pops
A struggle for power.
They’re flailing at this point, personal computers are catching up to “good enough”.
Only the AI Bros are like “ackshully you need a zero data retention frontier server, check out my tokens” fuck off
Those poor billionaire corpos! Why won’t somebody think of the poor billionaire corpos!?
The “There’s no way we can stop our agents from going rogue” people, suddenly have a burst of ability to reign in their creation when it suits their interests.
Funny that…
Does anyone think that perhaps what they are afraid is that source code of such clone would be compared to the original and show evidence that maybe the model was already trained on the code of the game?
I think this is definitely a concern, yes.
I think it’s very likely that these models are effectively being tricked into retrieving source code of projects from memory of seeing the actual source code in the biases. This is why some project are much easier to uncover than others.
I’m no expert, but if my understanding of LLMs as ‘probability calculators’ is correct, then if you prompted one properly to produce code which does x (a Photoshop function for example) and it had only been trained on one example of this (the Photoshop source code) it would reproduce the PS source code because that has the highest probability of that being the correct ‘answer’.
This is baasically correct, though what the models actually produce is a little more randomized than that. Though, if there aren’t any words that are anywhere cllose to being likely to follow next, then there won’t be a any other valid options to choose.
They aren’t being tricked. They are doing exactly what they were designed to do
Fair fair. Ih suppose what I mean is that it’s not really reverse engineering so much as it is recollecting from training samples.
Where would they get the source code from so they can include it in the training data in this scenario?
Looks like everywhere companies mandate employees to install copilot or equivalent.
I think originally they were saying they won’t be using the proprietary code for training, but I don’t trust those companies when they already broke laws.
From the stolen math research for tha NS, from the company response that they can’t guarantee that the model didn’t train on the mathematician sessions, we know for sure they are using the inputs for training lol
This is full conspiracy from me, but could the terms of service for github grant the right to “enhance tools” based on private github projects. These then get moved around as ‘anonymized’ data to train off?
The models don’t store access to their training data. So no, there’s no source code in the model to retrieve.
It’s long been proven that LLMs can produce exact copies of their training data. Not every piece of training data, of course, but enough where spitting out exact replicas of proprietary code is a legitimate concern. Not to mention that copies don’t need to be exact in order to be a problem.
The models are essentially a giant lossy compression applied to the training data.
They don’t store the loseless version of the training data sure, but that doesn’t mean it can’t reproduce something close enough to it, it’s literally how the whole thing works.
My understanding of it is that it’s far more complex than “lossy compression”. Of course it can generate text that is close to something in its training data, but I don’t think people have the right mental model if they think the model itself somehow has whole chunks of code in it. It does not.
My understanding of it is that it’s far more complex than “lossy compression”. Of course it can generate text that is close to something in its training data, but I don’t think people have the right mental model if they think the model itself somehow has whole chunks of code in it. It does not.
So why can they recreate entire articles from the New Yorker and complete functions from the training set? Don’t fall for the slop laundering.
I’ve never seen any proof of this? They can fetch data and present it as their own maybe? But models don’t store training data verbatim. It’s like 6+6 and 4+8 both = 12, but they just store 12 and how it got there is unknown.
I’ve never seen any proof of this? They can fetch data and present it as their own maybe? But models don’t store training data verbatim. It’s like 6+6 and 4+8 both = 12, but they just store 12 and how it got there is unknown.
The purpose of Al is to allow wealth to access skill while removing from the skilled the ability to access wealth.
The purpose of capitalism…
The purpose of capitalism is to leverage capital (assets) for private enterprise. It’s objective seems accumulation, but it’s really just human nature. People hoard, and wealth seems akin to hoarding.
Pretty much. Regardless of AI, workers, white, blue, even managers, are nothing more than a cost account to the majority of corporations.
