The emulator being 3dSen, direct link to Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1147940/3dSen_PC/
I saw there’s a VR mode and couldn’t throw $15 at this fast enough. This looks phenomenal! So cool.
Thanks for posting this. Had no idea it existed.
You can play Duck Hunt with a VR Zapper. Worth $15 there alone. I’m a simple man.
Duck Season is pretty fun too FWIW.
How long till Nintendo files.
I’m not sure they can in this instance. The reason they could sue the Switch emulator team was because they were using a proprietary encryption key.
I don’t think the NES had that, and as long as you own the game, emulation is legal.
Also, this might be considered transformative use since the devs have to create the 3D profile by hand.
They were able to prevent Dolphin’s release on Steam
Nintendo was able to sue palworld using a patent that didn’t exist before palworlds release. It’s not right, but they can do whatever they want regardless of what the law says.
Exhibit number 4,923,768 for why patents should not exist and need to be aggressively banished from civilization.
They were able to do that because Palworld is made by Japanese devs, and they used specifically Japanese patent law. Doesn’t apply here.
That’s not the lawsuit that’s being discussed. It’s the Yuzu Switch emulator lawsuit.
yeah, i know. Point is that Nintendo can do whatever they want with the flimsyest excuse.
Exactly. They can file a lawsuit even knowing they might not win just to burden someone into crippling debt if they want to defend themselves
as long as you own the game, emulation is legal.
People say this, but I believe it is mostly technically untrue. It’d be a relatively easy argument to say that a downloaded ROM that isn’t exactly the digital copy YOU purchased with a license would be seen as not legal.
However some people talk about literally ripping the game off the physical device themselves, hence copying their own copy of it. Now you are in grey territory of making copies of copyrighted materials, and in the case of more modern games like the last decade, they almost assuredly have language that specifies you don’t actually own the code and all that.
All I’m saying is be careful and probably refrain from repeating the fallacy that owning a game makes emulation of it legal, because that implies having the ROM is legal and that’s doubtful.
Copying your own game and materials for backup purposes is no grey area, and neither is development or use of emulators, and panicky, uninformed spewing of gut feelings are how public knowledge of your actual rights gets muddled into people with zero knowledge waxing poetic about how they THINK it works because they like games and think that makes their ramblings valuable.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201
In the USA, it is illegal to make a backup copy of any of your media when the original contains any form of DRM.
On any media where DRM wasn’t used, you’re okay to create a backup copy.
The law is different everywhere though.
Bleem would like a word…
The Bleem case is a separate issue from creating a backup copy protected by DRM
Not to be a stickler, but this does not say making copies is illegal - it makes circumvention of drm methods illegal. You can make drm’d copies as you like as long as you don’t circumvent the drm method. If your game isn’t encrypted, and the emulator doesn’t implement the drm, you haven’t circumvented drm - you are playing your legal copy on a device that does not implement the drm. It’s distinct from removing the drm from a device that implements it.
I do get that most consoles encrypt their software these days, but let’s be clear - it’s not as simple as “DRM means you have no rights.”
The law is all about those technicalities.
I don’t agree with any of that noise around the DMCA for the record. I feel like we effectively lost our right to archival copies.
On a PC, what you said about copying the DRM along with the data is largely true. It is possible sometimes to copy the DRM and reproduce the image with the DRM intact. It also might not be depending upon the copy protection mechanism. Commercial video DVDs used to employ tricks with the storage sector that made it almost impossible to properly copy by a standard computer disc drive. You could get around this with additional program like AnyDVD, but that was only available for sale outside the USA because of the fact that it allowed you to bypass DRM.
And like you said, the content can be encrypted. Decrypting it is, IIRC, considered bypassing DRM - at least in the USA.
Again, I don’t agree that this is how things should be, but the legality of emulation is complicated depending upon what we’re talking about emulating.
I also don’t like how things are legally speaking with DMCA, but the main takeaway is - the creation and distribution of an emulator, without DRM protections, is unequivocally protected and legal. ROM backup is certainly in most cases not, but if you are making your own copies for your own use, even while illegally breaking encryption, it would be difficult to prove and prosecute on an individual basis.
The right we must continually remind people is NOT even REMOTELY in question is the right to create and distribute emulators. This is by far the more important one, because people cannot reasonably develop their own emulators - it requires an open, collaborative community to ensure future preservation, and it’s a constant battle to keep people from actively trying to cede this right because they have nebulous loyalties to soulless companies that return no such feelings.
/edit: I was WRONG. This is my memory failing me. I explain it further below, and apologize for wasting any time.
After the DMCA passed there was a case of a judge finding it legal to bypass DRM to make backup copies, but illegal to distribute the software used to do so. I have no idea if there was ever further clarification or new law about this. That was like 20 years ago. It was part of a case going after the company who was making the software, but the name slips my mind. I’ll try to look it up if anyone cares enough and wants to look for something more than hearsay on a forum.I would be interested in that case if you find it. I spend a lot of time thinking about emulation and the surrounding stuff.
I get you! I was bigger into copyright some 20-30 years ago myself when we would’ve all been on Slashdot.
To that end, I was WRONG in my post, I think I was conflating two things, and for that, I’m sorry. I was certainly thinking in part about Universal City Studios, Inc. v. Corley (2001). That was the case that decided that the software DeCSS was illegal, and you could distribute the software. I was thinking that while the court did agree with Universal over the software, that it did not find that breaking DRM on a product you owned was inherently illegal. (I legit think this was a “take” at the time. Probably wouldn’t hold up in court these days, sadly.) And I did find that years later the Library of Congress offered exemptions for breaking DRM on some hardware (vehicles, medical devices,) but I believe even those were temporary and have since lapsed.
Sorry I spoke so surely about something I was wrong about.
The emulation itself is legal, assuming you’re not using any copyrighted code, BIOS, etc. to make work.
The backup copy of your game that you need can be made legally as well, but in the USA, if the source contains a form of DRM, then you cannot legally make a copy.
I wonder if Steam would remove it from people’s libraries in that instance or just the Storefront
I just gave it a download. Tested Mega Man 2, and now I’m playing Super Mario Bros. It’s really fucking cool
It also works with romhacks if the code isn’t changed too much. Ducktales 2 co-op works like a charm!
Zelda 1 seems an odd omission from the supported games. I wonder if some games are harder to implement than others or something.
Zelda is there! Remember it’s under “Legend of Zelda.” It looks friggin’ rad in VR 3D. I’m definitely playing through this whole game like this.
The weird one for me is that Super Mario Bros 2 is missing.
I thought I saw in very recent patch notes that there was a community-made version of SM2?
Bought it a few years ago. Super cool, though I probably only messed around with it a couple hours before forgetting about it.
Didn’t know about this. This is amazing.
how does it work?
Each game needs to have a custom profile created to render in 3D. From the linked article:
3dSen is an emulator that lets you play 2D NES games in 3D. Its programmers have to create a custom profile for it to work its magic on each game, which means there are currently 100 supported games, including Contra, Super Mario Bros, Batman, Castlevania, Bubble Bobble, and Gradius.
And from another article:
…with the addition of the 3dSenMaker tool, community members now can handcraft 3D profiles for their favorite games.
They want money for an emulator? that’s bold
Maybe, but it’s not just emulating the rom, I thinks there’s enough value add for their $9 asking price.
$9 on sale, but $15 normally.
Still, being able to argue they’re not for profit is what typically has protected emulators from being sued to oblivion (and with Nintendo, even that’s risky)…
Bleem!
Has being non-profit been a legal defense used somewhere before? At least in the US the case law is based on commercial, profit-driven emulators being explicitly ruled as legal when Sony tried suing them. I see this said constantly and I think it’s genuinely just the result of propaganda from Nintendo or something.
Yeah, the archival argument won’t fly here.
