No I’m not asking for legal advice, I’m more asking like where to start and what benefits it might offer my roommate.

Brownie is an awesome friendly dog, and I think he deserves the badge of emotional support animal. Question is, where to start?

  • early_riser@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Guide dog user here. My life and those of other guide and service dog handlers have been made much more inconvenient by the abuse of the “emotional support animal” label. I don’t want to dismiss the concept wholesale, as my guide dog has been a tremendous emotional anchor in addition to a mobility aid, and I wouldn’t want to deny others that benefit.

    However, as wonderful a dog as Brownie surely is, can he traverse a grocery store without sticking his nose in the produce? Can he tolerate walking inches away from cars going past at 30 MPH? Will he get back on track if distracted by other animals? Can he board and ride an elevator, escalator, bus, or plane without panicking? Will he tolerate a fixed bathroom schedule and can he hold it for hours if that schedule cannot be met? Can he ignore others trying to pet or feed him? Will he lie still and quiet in an unfamiliar place? Traditional service dogs are bred and trained to handle these things, and not every dog is cut out for service work. I have trained with three guide dogs, and every time someone in my class has had to swap dogs because the dog they were first given showed resource guarding behavior, or raised its hackles at another dog, or was too flighty around cars, etc. And this was after selective breeding, puppy screening, a year’s worth of socialization with a puppy raiser, and months of professional training.

    • over_clox@lemmy.worldOP
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      2 days ago
      • Can he traverse a grocery store without sticking his nose in the produce? … Uncertain, never tried.

      • Can he tolerate walking inches away from cars going past at 30 MPH? … Yes

      • Will he get back on track if distracted by other animals? … Yes, as long as he doesn’t feel threatened.

      • Can he board and ride an elevator, escalator, bus, or plane without panicking? … He doesn’t exactly have experience with all those things, but he has no problem getting back in the vehicle when called, and he knows how to navigate the stairs back home.

      • Will he tolerate a fixed bathroom schedule and can he hold it for hours if that schedule cannot be met? … Yes, he’s totally housebroken.

      • Can he ignore others trying to pet or feed him? … No, he can’t quite handle that like he ought to, he loves the company of others, sometimes to a puppy brain fault…

      • Will he lie still and quiet in an unfamiliar place? … Yes.

      Brownie is like 80% awesome, 19% dumb, and 1℅ ankle biter if he feels any threats around…

  • cattywampas@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    Emotional support animals do not qualify as service animals under the ADA. There is no process or organization to make him an “official” emotional support animal, though there are many companies that will gladly sell you a badge, certificate, or harness.

    • over_clox@lemmy.worldOP
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      3 days ago

      Oh I get that, and I don’t expect Brownie is in any way smart enough to fully qualify as a proper service animal.

      But I do think he brings love and joy to practically everyone, no matter what age the people are. And he’s very much housebroken, so no accidents indoors.

      Hell, there have been registered emotional support horses and alligators before, no joke, so I just find myself wondering if I can help find a way for my roommate to get Brownie registered as an emotional support dog… 🤷

      • cattywampas@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        Then I guess I’m unclear what you hope to accomplish if you already know there will be no legal privileges or protections. You could draw up your own certification and frame it, Brownie won’t know the difference.

        • over_clox@lemmy.worldOP
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          3 days ago

          Emotional support horses have been allowed on airplanes. The least I could try to help my roommate with is trying to help get his dog qualified to purchase dog food off his health insurance card. Airplane not necessary.

          Like fuck, there’s gotta be a way, right? Where to start though?..

          • cattywampas@lemmy.world
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            3 days ago

            No, there is no way. That will be entirely up to the airline. They treat non-service animals as pets, with all the rules and regulations that apply. There’s nothing that obligates them to treat an emotional support animal any differently than any other pet.

            I did a little digging into that horse story. It seems it may actually have been a trained service animal and not just an ESA. But in either case, the DOT has since updated its rules to exclude miniature horses from being allowed on airplanes.

            • over_clox@lemmy.worldOP
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              3 days ago

              Again, airplane not necessary, my roommate ain’t planning to fly anywhere.

              I’m just curious to try to help him get qualified to purchase dog food from his health insurance card…

              • cattywampas@lemmy.world
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                3 days ago

                That sounds like it’s up to the insurance company. But, again, there is nothing in the way of being an emotional support animal that would compel it to be covered by insurance, so I wouldn’t get your hopes up for it being covered. A service animal may be a different story.

                • early_riser@lemmy.world
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                  2 days ago

                  I’m pretty sure you can’t even do that with traditional service dogs. I think vet and food expenses for a service dog can be deducted from taxes as a medical expense (not financial advice!) but not charged to human health insurance.

                • over_clox@lemmy.worldOP
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                  3 days ago

                  I do thank you for your advice, but I’m just not sure.

                  His previous healthcare provider allowed him to purchase dog food, but he switched providers and not sure if there’s a proper solution to that this year…

                  I dunno, just trying to help my roommate ya know.

                  I don’t have my hopes up, but I don’t have my hopes down either. Just asking around ya know…

              • Zomg@piefed.world
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                3 days ago

                Hey man, if "my dog is loved by everyone " can be used as a cheat code for food covered with insurance, I don’t think you’d need to use Lemmy to find answers.

                • over_clox@lemmy.worldOP
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                  3 days ago

                  He’s not my dog, he’s my elderly roommate’s dog.

                  I’m just asking basic advice on where to start and how to help my roommate…

              • GiantChickDicks@lemmy.ml
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                2 days ago

                As someone who’s fostered and trained both service dogs and ESAs, this is highly offensive. These designations are meant to help people with disabilities, not those who have financial needs. As others have already pointed out, abuse of the ESA designation has had serious negative impacts on service dog handlers. There are also many people out there with serious need for an ESA, and if others keep abusing this lax system for frivolous reasons, eventually rules are going to be in place that will inevitably hurt those with actual health needs.

                If your roommate needs financial assistance feeding their dog, there are social services available to help with this. Many communities offer pet food pantries, and there are national charities available to assist with the financial strain of keeping animals in their homes. I can send a list if that’s helpful.

                Most dogs I know are wonderful and brighten even strangers’ days just by being themselves. That doesn’t make it okay to abuse safety nets put in place to help disabled people in order to make their care more affordable, though.

                • over_clox@lemmy.worldOP
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                  2 days ago

                  Oh come on now, it only costs about $4 to feed Brownie for an entire month. Roommate’s previous insurance covered that no problem, so what’s it hurt to ask advice on his behalf?

                  Geez, just trying to see if I can help an old fella save $4 a month.

                  Tell me you work for an insurance company without telling me you work for an insurance company…

  • ESA is easy. You just need a therapist to sign off on it. ESAs don’t require training, but also don’t get any real benefit other than being allowed to keep it even if your landlord doesn’t allow pets. They are not certified as work animals, and don’t get a pass taking them into public places like service animals do.

    • over_clox@lemmy.worldOP
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      2 days ago

      Thank you and other helpful commenters for the good advice, but by far this is the most clear and concise advice 👍

      🦮

  • Dunning Kruger@lemmy.world
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    7 hours ago

    As others have described in this thread, “emotional support animals” and “service animals” are different entities with different requirements and privileges.

    Service animals generally have specific training to perform specific tasks to support an individual who has a disability. Service animals have fairly broad societal privileges based on the protections described by the Americans with Disabilities Act. You could read more about that here: https://www.ada.gov/topics/service-animals/.

    An emotional support animal is a much broader definition which describes an animal whose presence may reduce an individual’s distress. Emotional support animals have fewer societal privileges. Some organizations or businesses may allow the presence of an emotional support animal, but others may not. The main legal protection relating specifically to emotional support animals is that the Fair Housing Act protects owners of emotional support animals from discrimination in housing, such as being denied housing or having to pay additional fees.

    Another place where you could read more about the distinctions between the two would be: https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/training/service-dog-training-101/

    There aren’t really any organization that I know of which formally designate animals as emotional support animals, other than some online websites where you can buy and print your own certificate if you are interested in doing so.

    There are many instances where a healthcare worker, such as a doctor or therapist, may recommend the presence of an emotional support animal, however. This kind of recommendation is typically based on the healthcare conditions experienced by the human, which the healthcare worker can attest to as being consistent with medical necessity, such that the presence of an emotional support animal is recommended to support the healthcare needs of the human.

    NABDad describes a good example of an appropriate recommendation for the use of an emotional support animal in this thread. If you read his description carefully, he says that the doctor made the recommendation based on his daughter’s healthcare needs, and then they went and found the guinea pig to serve as a form of healthcare treatment after that. The doctor’s assessment was based on NABDad’s daughter, not on the guinea pig.

    If you would like Brownie to be recognized as an emotional support animal for your roommate, the process would generally be for your roommate to contact a healthcare worker, such as a doctor or therapist, so that your roommate can discuss their healthcare needs.

  • NABDad@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    My daughter got an emotional support animal before she went to college.

    She graduated from high school in the middle of the pandemic, and she wasn’t sure she’d be able to make it through college, but she found out that if she had an emotional support animal, she could have it with her in the dorm.

    She spoke to her doctor, got the forms, and we found a guinea pig at a shelter.

    Normally a guinea pig needs other guinea pigs around to be healthy and safe. Her guinea pig was surrendered from a home that had 30 guinea pigs and he was severely abused by his siblings. His ears were torn, and he’s got scars on his belly. He didn’t tolerate the presence of other guinea pigs.

    There was a day before she left for college when my daughter was depressed and just spending all day in bed. I pointed out to her that she was responsible for the guinea pig. She could be depressed, and unmotivated, but she had to clean his pen every day, feed him, and take care of him.

    It worked. She graduated in January. He’s her emotional support animal, and she’s his emotional support human. She’s his herd, so she has to keep him company. Obviously, there’s more going on there, but I’m just taking about the emotional support animal.

    He’s actually gotten better too. He still doesn’t live with other guinea pigs, but he doesn’t run away if he hears them anymore.

    The only legal benefit to having an emotional support animal that I’m aware of in the U.S. is you can’t be denied housing.

    • LemmyKnowsBest@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      The only legal benefit to having an emotional support animal that I’m aware of in the U.S. is you can’t be denied housing.

      Wow, really? I’m not doubting what you say is probably true because you said it was such confidence, but I would imagine the opposite would be true. I’ve seen homeless people with dogs who couldn’t go into homeless shelters because homeless shelters don’t allow pets. And of course we all know there are lots of apartments and hotels that say “no pets allowed.”

      So, hmmm.

      • NABDad@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        It’s 42 U.S.C. § 3604

        Apartments would be included, hotels probably not.

        As I understand it, it’s the “B” part of this:

        (3)For purposes of this subsection, discrimination includes—

        (A)a refusal to permit, at the expense of the handicapped person, reasonable modifications of existing premises occupied or to be occupied by such person if such modifications may be necessary to afford such person full enjoyment of the premises except that, in the case of a rental, the landlord may where it is reasonable to do so condition permission for a modification on the renter agreeing to restore the interior of the premises to the condition that existed before the modification, reasonable wear and tear excepted.[2]

        (B)a refusal to make reasonable accommodations in rules, policies, practices, or services, when such accommodations may be necessary to afford such person equal opportunity to use and enjoy a dwelling; or

        Allowing a emotional support animal is seen as a reasonable accommodation.

        Hotels and motels, if they offer long term housing would be included, but short term housing would not be. Apparently courts have ruled that it applies to homeless shelters. However, the people running them can require documentation, and it is probably difficult for a homeless person to get paperwork from a doctor to prove that they need the accommodation of an emotional support animal.

        This is different from a service dog, where the animal is more or less considered part of the person, so denying the animal access is the same as denying the person access due to their disability, and that will incur the wrath of the ADA.

        Edit: To be clear, they’re allowed to have a rule that says no pets allowed, but they’re required to make an accommodation for people whose disability requires them to have an emotional support animal. However, they’re not required to tell you that they’re required to make the accommodation.

    • over_clox@lemmy.worldOP
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      3 days ago

      Damn. Awesome, but damn…

      Brownie is already like everyone’s unofficial support animal around here, at least the people Brownie knows anyways. Brownie is a rescue, some lousy ass sack of shit of a human dropped him off at our city park almost 2 years ago. ☹️

      Brownie has his forever home now with my roommate…

    • over_clox@lemmy.worldOP
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      3 days ago

      Fuck you once for accusing me of abusing anything, I just asked a question.

      Fuck you twice for implying my roommate doesn’t have emotional issues.

      Brownie is an awesome emotional support animal, he’s just not registered.

      So, if you don’t have useful information or suggestions, then please kindly fuckoff.

        • CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works
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          3 days ago

          Why wouldn’t they need help? Do you think the local government goes door to door asking residents if they have any ailments or issues and supplies them with the proper forms and education on what programs or services are available for them? Like how could you possibly come to the conclusion that this would be the case and that your comment was some sort of “gotcha?”

            • CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works
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              3 days ago

              You think your average person can access therapy services especially in a place like Mississippi, the poorest state in the entire nation? Keep in mind this guy is apparently 66 years old with a roommate.

                • Findus_Falke@feddit.org
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                  2 days ago

                  Bro lost everything. The plot, this argument, my respect. Rock bottom. Gladly, where they live, apparently therapy is affordable and widely available. Although dogs arent, which is sad, but also a little weird.

                • CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works
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                  2 days ago

                  You can’t be a real person. I see homeless people with dogs all day long. You don’t need to be wealthy to own one especially when it’s a rescue that someone dumped in a park. Are you just making ridiculous claims as a way to double down and avoid looking foolish for overreacting or do you really believe what you’re saying?

                • over_clox@lemmy.worldOP
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                  2 days ago

                  Brownie is reasonably affordable for him, and he keeps roommate alert and aware of situations around him and where he stays.

                  Reasonably affordable doesn’t mean roommate is wealthy though.

                  I take care of elderly and disabled people, and I promise you, none of them are wealthy, they just need help…

        • over_clox@lemmy.worldOP
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          3 days ago

          Why in the holy fuck do people keep insisting I’m somehow lying about my roommate? He’s 66 years old and doesn’t fully understand modern technology.

          And I’m only 43 years old, and I don’t have all the answers for him…

      • GiantChickDicks@lemmy.ml
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        2 days ago

        Nah, fuck you for pretending to have the moral high ground in this comment while openly saying you’re just in it for free dog food in others. This commenter is absolutely correct in calling you out for trying to abuse a program meant to aid the disabled, as people like you who take unnecessary advantage harm the future availability of these kinds of programs. Especially when pet food assistance programs are a thing.

        • over_clox@lemmy.worldOP
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          2 days ago

          What the hell is wrong with you? It only costs ~$8 for about 2 months of food to feed Brownie, and his previous health insurance covered that no problem.

          You act as if I’m looking to do some scam or some shit. No, just trying to help my roommate see if it’s possible to save him $4 a month with his new insurance. His previous insurance covered it, so what’s it hurt to ask simple advice?

  • Demonmariner@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    Maybe try for therapy dog certification. Appropriate training and testing is available in some places, not sure about Mississippi. Many hospitals and nursing homes recognize it and will allow certified dogs and handlers into their facilities.

    For an ESA, all you really need is a therapist’s note, but recognition isn’t guaranteed.

  • Barbecue Cowboy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    3 days ago

    Last I heard it was slightly backwards.

    You need to find someone who needs an ESA and get a professional to sign off on that for that person and then their animal can become an ESA.