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Kinda. I understand the logic behind some stuff, but I still laze around and don’t feel like doing them, like exercise.
That was me with flossing. My parents and childhood dentist always TOLD me to floss, and you just stick the floss between your teeth and that’s flossing. I thought it was dumb and didn’t do anything to help my teeth so I never really did it. Until as an adult my dental hygienist explained in detail you need to scrape the sides of your teeth with the floss and go up/down the tooth as far as you can without hurting yourself. Then demonstrated on herself, and then asked me to do it in front of her so she could see if I was doing it right. Great lady.
So it was entirely process based and not logic based?
The process didn’t jive with the logic… so…
What logic?
I think the logic that clicked is more like “oh, the sides of my teeth need to be brushed, too, and a tooth brush can’t get there, hence flossing.”
That would make sense for sure. It didn’t read that way to me, so that’s why I was asking.
That’s fair, I don’t think this was explicitly stated in the comment above.
My son got a really bad gum infection when he was twelve. From that moment on he brushes his teeth twice a day. We found a video online that detailed how you should brush your teeth from the 70’s and he watched it often. I haven’t asked but he probably still does.
Okay, now where one can find toothpaste that won’t leave a strong mint taste in your mouth for up to a few hours, that is also not one of those kid’s toothpastes?
I use Sensodyne brand and I don’t feel like the taste lingers very long, I may just be tolerant though because I have used the same brand for years.
Why should I live?
Because it’s a lot cooler than being dead.
Out of spite
To have a good life to spite those who despise you.
Because in times of oppression, staying alive is a revolutionary act.
There is no WHY. The moment simply is, and we are all trapped within it, like bugs in amber.
Or something like that
To find out why you should live.
Yet so many of the answers I received as a kid was, “because I said so”.
Damn my parents sucked in such mediocre ways.
I told my autistic son to stop following a girl around and telling her she is sexy after he got in trouble for doing it. Told him why, and explained how that stalking criminal charges could be brought against him. Explained how an arrest and criminal record would make his life exceedingly difficult.
So he doubled down and threatened the girl’s boyfriend instead.
Oh I wish logic and reason applied, I would happily explain ANYTHING in extreme detail. I mean, I have.
I have no idea how to get through to this boy. School is little help, psychologists don’t know or won’t be bothered to know, therapists are clueless. He’s high-functioning in so many ways so most are happy to ignore him–until shit like this comes up.
Being told and understanding are fundamentally different things.
That sounds like there may be some anger management issues in there too… That or he’s not as high functioning as you think on the emotional side.
Or maybe he needs a long conversation explaining how others are allowed to be autonomous and it’s OK if others have different preferences and relationships. Or that consent is the #1 feature of healthy interactions, and if someone doesn’t want you, forcing it is just going to make everyone miserable even if he could snap his fingers and maker her his GF.
did you try asking him to have empathy and understand the girl’s position?
…my autistic son…
Autistics still have empathy…
As a parent now myself, I’ve used the “because I said so” line.
I have a personal rule however. When I’ve used it, I make a point to sit down and explain why. It might be after we have all cooled off, or after the stress is gone.
It gives them a sense of what went wrong. In the moment, they also know they will get an explanation eventually. Lastly, it keeps me honest. No using it because I can’t explain in a way that doesn’t make me look bad.
It’s worth noting, parenting is HARD. Our generation at least has the advantage of modern information and science. The generations before us were stuck with hearsay and hope. Recognise their mistakes, but try not too judge them too harshly for them.
Exactly! Not NOW! is perfectly reasonable.
The purpose of explaining rules is to give kids the ability to choose to behave intelligently, IMO. If they think rules are arbitrary, which is the impression given by “because I said so”, they have no tools to use to make good decisions. Ideally, the explanation happens before things go wrong, to minimize how many times that happens.
Fully agreed on that. It generally only comes out when explaining the rule, in the moment, will either cause compounding issues, or is unfeasible. I’ve also used it once or twice, while running near my own mental limits.
Nah I’ll judge mine for many of their mistakes because they were not forced nor ignorant mistakes. A lot of them were because I’m on the young side of many children, so they were largely checked out of parenting by then.
Hmm. I understand the logic of ‘doing job for 8 hrs = get income’ but it doesn’t do jack shit for my motivation.
Logic doesn’t create motivation. It can help with purpose and reason.
The logic chain is not that simple and stops where you say. Why get income? Why would there be a need for “income”? What is income? Why does it need to be “a job” for 8 hours? And so on.
If you completely illuminate the issue, you’ll likely find that no, you don’t really understand the logic of “doing job for 8 hrs = get income”.
And that’s how you become an autistic militant
Oh that’s what happened!
because that’s not logical. especially whet you’re in a job that’s not actively helping people, like call centers.
Also sitting around 8 hours and not being efficient at all instead of doing stuff when it works and makes sense.
Of course that does not apply to all jobs but most office related things are batshit insane levels of inefficiency. The psychological implications of this are yet another issue.
I’m in the spectrum myself, I feel this. But I also have to mention that my experience has shown me that when you go down this road, you might need to argue with an asd person who doesn’t get it and wants to keep arguing, and sometimes there’s just no time for that. Sometimes we need to recognise when someone else is an expert and defer to their opinion instead of forcing them to be an unwilling and unpaid tutor. If they’re not an expert otoh and are just an authority (boss, landlord, whatever) then argue away but recognise that unfortunately there can be consequences for arguing with authority, so be prepared and know when to back down for your own well being
(I want to preface this by saying that I agree with you and am not attempting an argument - I just got on a tangent at one point. Any emotion conveyed in this post isn’t due to/directed toward you or your post, but is a function of how reflecting on the subjects at hand makes me feel.)
As a kid, I wanted to argue even more with authority figures who lacked a clear reason for having authority. An expert on a matter? That makes sense, I’d listen to them. A teacher that actually guides students and respects them? That also makes sense.
But somebody “in charge,” making decisions that seem completely arbitrary or straight-up nonsensical? That didn’t listen or care what others thought, and who demanded respect without ever returning it? We had a mutual hate for each other. The fact they were given authority pissed me off and I saw zero reason to comply with anything they demanded.
… I didn’t get along with most of my school administrators.
Most people shy away from conflict, from what I’ve seen. My fire has been dampened so many times from all different sides and now I’m a tired, 30-something-year-old that wishes she could be as fired-up as she used to be. Because now, we have fascists taking over (or attempting to) all around the world. People here on Lemmy keep insulting Americans for not “fighting back” enough, but they have no idea how bad the compliance conditioning is here.
I refuse to teach blind obedience. I’d rather see kids that question everything and get in trouble for it than ones that will just accept whatever authority tells them. It’s not the kids’ fault the world doesn’t make sense, but teaching them to just accept it as “the way it is” (as the adults in my life always said) does nothing but perpetuate this cycle.
We need more skeptics. We need more action-takers. Those that believe they just “deserve” to have authority need to be challenged, now more than ever (I picked this username for a reason.) To be clear - I say this as an autistic teacher of autistic kids. I understand the risks from both sides, and I know raising autistic kids isn’t easy. But the world doesn’t need more people who give up the good fight just because it’s hard; the world needs more people who point out hypocrisy and injustice, including children who will blithely point out that the emperor has no clothes.
It’s important to realize that while autistic people might understand things and act in accordance to that more readily, we are still subject to other human biases including ego. One’s ego may prevent oneself from gaining an understanding in the first place.
Yes but similarly I can only fix something after I fully understand how it works.
Is this a characteristically autistic trait?
This may come as a shock but quite essentially everyone is winging everything with a subset of never complete information.
Now i find autism makes me see the patterns more easily between usefull or counter-efficient steps and the details of actual performance-quality.
Combined with often being told “my intuitive plan” is not the correct “default intuitive way to do things” it sets you up to hyperfocus on getting all steps right with ptsd anxiety about getting them wrong.
So we try real hard and question every step to navigate towards quality/success but it takes a lot of mental energy to do so.
Things get much easier once you obtain “fuller” understanding off the concepts at play. Then you can intuitively tell what components your plan needs and what things aren’t relevant.
The way I believe most neurotypical have it is that by doing things just like everyone else they obtain the same average performance-quality and they are not criticised for the commonly shared inaccuracies.
Because they demonstrated the ability to do the task within expected norms. they perceive this as them understanding the task. And will now proceed to call you insane if they ever see you skipping step 4 and oh god why did you flip it upside down?
It’s one of those things that are like shitting. Almost everyone does it, but if you do it way more often than everyone else, or it affects you so much it detracts from your everyday life in ways that it doesn’t for the average person, there might be something going on.
Is IBS an autistic trait? Because God damn I don’t need two punches to the face this morning.
Edit: This was a joke. I should remember I have to say that here.
Even if it was just meant as a joke, there is actually research in this general area:
The recent finding of the microbiota–gut–brain axis indicates the bidirectional connection between our gut and brain, demonstrating that gut microbiota can influence many neurological disorders such as autism. Most autistic patients suffer from gastrointestinal (GI) symptoms.
Yes
No it’s universal, gaining expertise and troubleshooting. Fixing something without knowing is just getting lucky.
Truth. People who give some justification for doing things don’t understand what I need. I need the actual reason. If that reason doesn’t exist then the point of the action doesn’t exist.
Difficulty: a sizeable proportion of neurotypical people find it condescending and insulting to have the reason for something explained to them, if it seems like something that an adult should be able to figure out for themselves.
As a consequence of this, they’re also not comfortable explaining things that they consider obvious, because they feel like they’re being rude themselves, and may even consider requests for such explanations to be confrontational.
Yeah I know, we suck
a sizeable proportion of neurotypical people
Are fucking dumb, yes.
I fixed this issue by being stupid and forgetful, so I never feel insulted if someone explains something I should know. In fact, I just assume I have wrong / incomplete / partially forgotten information even for the things I know I know, just in case.
I am also stubborn so I will, in most cases, learn enough to fix my issue or be knowledgeable enough to recognise an expert that can fix it for me or help me through.
Or maybe I’m just autistic and coping.
Yeah, I’m not too worried personally. I’ve encountered people who felt belittled, or maybe even infantilized, by having things explained to them. I think, ultimately, it comes down to understanding each individual’s personality and how they respond to information. As well as not being rude or disrespectful, of course.
i think a lot of people are driven by “because the law says so” a lot. people work because they need money to live, not because they care about whether their work actually helps anybody. people don’t steal because they’re afraid of the law. it’s not as if most people actually need or care about a higher purpose in their activities. that’s rather the rare exception to look for higher purpose in what you’re doing.
Hey, autistic people!
You pour water over your toothpaste in order to soften it so it’ll turn into a liquid easier. If your toothpaste is always too solid and goopy it’s because you aren’t wetting it.
I both wet my toothbrush and sip a tiny amount of water for brushing. Not only does it help my tongue which is sensitive to toothpaste, it also gets far frothier (which I assume makes for more thorough application).
Do people not have spit…?
You’re supposed to wet the toothbrush before you put the toothpaste on it. That way the toothpaste doesn’t fall off.
I think toothpaste sticks better to a dry brush. If i try to squeeze the tube onto a wet brush it wet noodles to one side.
I don’t wet either and brush my teeth just fine. Just to make this conversation more confusing.
Unless you’re not the best at getting it to stick to the brush before you put it under the water, and the majority of it gets knocked into the sink when you try. If that constantly happens to you, you can wet the brush first and THEN add the toothpaste. It’ll take a few seconds to mix when brushing, but you’ll get the same results with less wasted toothpaste.
Too complex. I just squirt the toothpaste into my mouth.
(not really)
I actually do this. I typically don’t bring it up as a third option when this discussion happens because I’d rather not be seen as a maniac around here. But it works great.
I put the toothpaste onto the tip of my tongue, get the brush wet, then as I put the brush in my mouth I also mush the toothpaste into the brush with my tongue.
Hygiene seems like the obvious concern. But funny enough, in our household we each have our own tubes of toothpaste and the end of mine looks perfectly clean while my wife’s and son’s are gross crusty messes. I can apply the toothpaste super cleanly. And any concerns about bumping my lip or tongue and contaminating the end of the tube seem to also exist but in a much worse way for toothbrushes and whatever may be floating around in the air in a bathroom. I’ll leave it at that, lol.
Woke up today thinking I have all the skills to make and fix e-bikes and that is likely a good leverage point to start to escape my isolation and push myself incrementally.
I was feeling really good after like 3 weeks of being able to push myself hard with new meds. Then the ideas of wtf I am going to do with myself were overwhelming. Like a person can’t bottle helpless isolation for 11+ years and then just flip that switch like I’m fine now.
So yeah, a few dark days hit me. Waking up to the idea of messing with e-bikes was a win. I just need to finish my hot air rework station and set up my bedroom electronics lab properly again.
I don’t really lock in though. All my best ideas and epiphanies happen at random when I’m doing other stuff. If feels like a dozen unrelated threads are always running in the back of my head and one or two might be closer to the front. When I try to force the timeline or creativity, I usually run in circles and get nowhere. Give me a few days to mull something over and I will distil the issues unlike anyone else. I think I’m just really dumb because I don’t understand things like most people. Like I do see the logic and can go through the motions, but all most people appear to do is memorize bits and pieces of information. I want to fundamentally understand the subject at a useful and flexible level. I don’t value theory like I do applications. I can still do theory, but only when I ground it in a useful application. I place no value on memorization independent of application. I cannot keep those things in long term memory for very long. Six months later, I forget it all. My lock is that I mull over stuff in the background for weeks at a time like I’m always working on them in bits and pieces of thought. Still to this day I question even saying that out loud. Like it seems so basal that everyone should be doing the same. It is fundamental to me. The older I get the more I question that assumption.
I’m similar. The other day, I described myself as “a creature of momentum” to explain how I work best when I have lots of different tasks or projects to cycle between — because of the background-ideas thing that you describe.
Hell yes. I’ve discovered this on my own last year (while having behaved like that for my entire life, but never formulated it that way until then) and it explains so much. The constant childlike “butwhys” just never stopped, in a way.
What does locking in mean?
Focused, not having any trouble doing the thing or remembering to do it that way
Oh gotcha. I figured it was something like that, but didn’t just want to assume. Thanks for the help
This post makes me wonder if it’s more than just ADHD and Bipolar depression… I can’t do a job properly without knowing why I’m doing it the way they want me to do it, for example. But once I understand the inner workings of a process, I can find ways to optimize it, and thus become good at it.
I should probably get diagnosed…
